Small chameleon

[oblgobl]

I've only been keeping panthers chams for a short while and would like some advice. There's a small aquatic shop near us that we go to regularly to have a look. They had a clutch of panthers there that never seem to be growing. They have one female left now and we popped in today and we were shocked to see she was the same size. We started enquiring about her only to be told she's 7months old. This female is probably 2 inches maximum no exaggeration. We told him our 14 week old female was 3 times that size and our 6 month old were giants compared to her. He said that they all grow at different rates which I understand but she's tiny. He said that is possibly the night time temps are too low but I don't personally see why this would be a big issue. They leave her crickets in there with her in a tub and we have seen her eat while we there what I have noticed however is there never appears to be any supplements on them. As a chameleon newbie I don't feel knowledgeable enough to confront them. We were also thinking of 'rescuing'her but are worried she'll have long term health problems. The gentleman who runs the place seems very knowledgeable about fish which is what they specialise is and he seems to care so I don't think he's being negligent on purpose. She appears to have everything she needs heat uv all that. Maybe I'm wrong and they can be they size at 7 months is just such a dramatic difference between my younger girls.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I can't comment on the chameleon without seeing it but I recommend you do not "rescue" it bc that just gives them all the more reason to order more and keep them in those conditions. If you want them to improve the way they treat their chams you could bring them a care sheet and find an appropriate way to inform them without insulting them. But buying the Cham will not send the right message to the shop owner

 

[oblgobl]

I can't comment on the chameleon withiut seeing it but I recommend you do not "rescue" it bc that just gives them all the more reason to order more and keep them in those conditions. If you want them to improve the way they treat their chams you could bring them a care sheet and find an appropriate way to inform them without insulting them. But buying the Cham will not send the right message to the shop owner

What's baffling is that I can't see anything wrong with the set up. There wasn't a thermometer that I could see so I don't know temps so that could be a factor maybe, but she had a good colour on her and was wandering around her Viv. Apart from her size she looks healthy, maybe he's confused about her age but she was there about 4 months ago so he can't be far off. My plan at the moment is to go there on my next day off (thursday) and just come right out and say that I'm not having a go but I'm concerned about her and that I think you should contact the breeder you got her from or maybe even get a vets opinion. Could it be possible that her clutch mates use to eat all the food and perhaps she didn't get a chance, it's the only thing I can really think of.

 

[FrankTheTank]

You never know with these things. He might be completely wrong about the species. There are pigmy chameleons that don't get much longer than a couple of inches. No chameleon should be shorter than 3-4 inches at that age. And that's pushing it.

 

[oblgobl]

She's definetaly a panther that much I can tell myself. You are absolutely right about bying her i didnt see it that way, I would be doing more harm than good in the long run. Other than her size she does seem healthy so I hope she gets a home. The man in charge does seem to care I've seen him refuse fish sales for example, maybe I'm being naive but I think If I told him straight that something is wrong he will want to rectify the problem.
Thank you for your advice.

 

[TNChameleon]

My wife actually works at a vary well known pet center and the way they feed there chameleons is ridiculous they are very limited on the food that they provide for them. She said a lot of times they throw them crickets while customers are present so that they get intrigued by watching them feed. But that's about all they get. Pet shops don't want there animals to grow do to cost and housing room. Same as with fish they limit their feeding to keep them small. It is a shame that the animals are the one's that suffer. That's why when you purchase the animal it has such a healthy appetite. It is a shame.. Now I actually convinced my wife to feed them where she works a handful a day. And the actual Managers noticed the growth spurt. And was asking where all there cricket stock went......Isn't that crazy..........

 

[oblgobl]

They probably hoped they would all sell quickly an this girl unfortunately got left behind. I know it's hard making profit with business involving animals but cutting costs in that way is unbelievable. I got my lot from a breeder best place to go if you want healthy animals I guess.

 

[TNChameleon]

Unfortunately a percentage of our world revolves around the all mighty dollar. Instead of almighty himself.............It is a shame..........But then again that's what makes them rich is by being that way..............

 

[Denverbug]

So I read all the replies on this thread but still don't see a definitive reason as to why this Cham is so small. If they are starving them wouldn't they look skinny and unhealthy. The reason I ask is because I have seen a veild at pet smart for about six months. He is only about 3" not including tail. He looks completely health other than size. Howevere I don't need to tell any of you how his housing conditions are, he is at pet smarts.

 

[oblgobl]

Thats what puzzles me aswel, I think it's possible that they're being fed enough to maintain there weight but not enough to grow. I guess unless we know the exact husbandry we'll never know. I'ts not likely if we ask they're going to say "yes we dont feed them enough we dont want them to take too much space".

 

[FrankTheTank]

So I read all the replies on this thread but still don't see a definitive reason as to why this Cham is so small. If they are starving them wouldn't they look skinny and unhealthy. The reason I ask is because I have seen a veild at pet smart for about six months. He is only about 3" not including tail. He looks completely health other than size. Howevere I don't need to tell any of you how his housing conditions are, he is at pet smarts.

Tiny glass enclosure with no ventilation and a dish of water? Yeah it's miserable being an animal in any pet shop. Especially chain stores. There isn't much we can know of why this is. No offense to the op but the info given might not be 100% correct. There could be many factors that could explain the reason for its small stature

 

[oblgobl]

That was quite interesting . I had a good look at her enclousure shes in a glass terrestrial viv with a mesh top for ventilation. It's not arboreal but she's so small she's got alot of space (maybe a possible issue too much space?). Her basking temps were around 85 (dial thermometer) possibly a bit low but in my experience those thermometers are always slightly below the actual temp. I talked to another guy today and at first he started with some bull how they're all diferent, he must have seen the look on my face or something he quickly changed his story. He say's they have no idea why she's not growing that she feeds well. I told him that I was also puzzled that she looks healthy. The only advice I could give him was that they had a waterfall in there I said they're not a good idea, and that her viv was very dry so I told them as soon as the viv dries completely you need to mist again. I tried to take some sneeky pics but it's hard to tell by the pictures how small she is. Hopefully I upload them right. Have I missed something how does she look to you guys?

I tried to use my finger for comparison but it's hard to tell.


Her enclouser. Coil UV and a basking bulb you can't see because it's raised up.


Just another one of her she is cute.


I didn't end up taking her in the end. When we saw her for the very first time with her clutch mates my friend (non reptile friend) was attracted to her because she was the smallest. They sell a complete chameleon kit wich is reasonably priced for what you get and it isn't terrible like some of the others you see even though it includes a heat matt for whatever reason. So maybe a first time owner will buy her (not knowing any better) since she's the only cham they have left at the moment.