So I contacted Petsmart's corporate office...

[Devokid]

The petsmart near me uses the little dripper as well as mist, but they do still use that coconut substrate. I've mentioned it before, but they done seem to think it matters.

 

[Chameleon Creator]

I thought I was pretty clear that I don't want a large bulk order of crickets kept in my house. The smell is awful and my wife doesn't like them. I have a large colony of Dubai roaches that I obviously didn't get from petsmart. My reason for shopping there is just and I will continue to get things there when I need them, and when it is the only alternative I have around here. That doesn't mean I support everything they are about. I don't like a lot of walmarts practices but do you think I am going to stop shopping there? No I am not. But if I felt strongly about something I thought they could easily change then I would go through the proper channels and ask for a change. I don't see what is so wrong with shopping at the only place I can go to to get quiet crickets in smaller quantities. I stand by everything I have said and done and I wouldn't change one thing. If you want to call me defensive for standing up for something then so be it. I wasn't attacking you by any means nor do I think you were attacking me. I am a fairly intelligent and reasonable person and I try to approach everything with an open mind. I'm sorry if I offended you with what I said. But my point is...not shopping there won't change one thing.

I didn't read the part about the bulk crickets but yes I entirely understand that, I am not saying you are wrong nor am I trying to tell you what to choose, I was just trying to help anyone else understand what saldarya (spelling?) was saying. It seemed to me like people were taking what he was saying the wrong way and I was trying to clear that up if possible.
I think you did the right thing anyways.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I agree with this. By shopping at an establishment, you are supporting the establishment. That's all there is to it. If you can't change what they are doing then stop supporting what they are doing, that's all the change you can make.
He wasn't saying you are wrong by telling them what they need to change. On a strictly numbers scale, Petsmart would rather deal with the smaller percentage of complaints which happens to be the more competent percentage. Just the way big business operates.
It's not difficult to buy crickets in bulk and keep them alive over the winter months, look into it I think you will be surprised at how much cheaper it will be as well.
This forum has a lot of sponsors that are here for a reason, use them.
Everyone here only wishes the best for the chameleons and hopes they can be treated fairly but the reality is it's more than likely not going to happen. We are all on the same team though.

I didn't read the part about the bulk crickets but yes I entirely understand that, I am not saying you are wrong nor am I trying to tell you what to choose, I was just trying to help anyone else understand what saldarya (spelling?) was saying. It seemed to me like people were taking what he was saying the wrong way and I was trying to clear that up if possible.
I think you did the right thing anyways.

Well thank you for your input. I most definitely agree with your statement that we are all looking out for these creatures and want only the best for them. I am not out to argue with anyone on here. That's not a goal of mine. I definitely don't mind a nice healthy debate though! And I consider you all my family. We won't all get along 100% of the time but in the end we basically all have the same goal

 

[Chameleon Creator]

Well thank you for your input. I most definitely agree with your statement that we are all looking out for these creatures and want only the best for them. I am not out to argue with anyone on here. That's not a goal of mine. I definitely don't mind a nice healthy debate though! And I consider you all my family. We won't all get along 100% of the time but in the end we basically all have the same goal

Yes definitely.. And the bulk crickets suck. I have 1000 and no I have many adults that are constantly chirping at night and many escape.. Crafty little guys. Drives me insane while I'm trying to sleep, I'll get up and try to find the chirping culprit and then of course he stops chirping...
Drives me crazy!

 

[longlostlotrelf]

I work at PetSmart as a dog trainer and in my store they seem to be doing well caring for them. We don't have a water bowl but a waterfall in the tank and many vines and things for the little cham to wander around on. We also use cage carpet in our enclosures and no coconut husk.

 

[ReptiGeek]

I work at Petsmart

Okay. I decided to finally crack and tell y'all a little bit about myself.
I work at Petsmart in the fish/ small animals/ birds and reptiles section. Almost every day I personally attend each and every animal, making sure all are healthy. If they appear ill I pull them off the floor and set up a vet appointment and temporary enclosure for them in our quiet room.
Here's a bit about our policy for the reptiles.

Water dishes are 100% required. It was stated before that the general public does not understand that not every reptile needs a water bowl. So if they saw a pet without access to water, they would be outraged.

Misting. I get my coworkers to mist the tropical reptiles 5 times a day, or every 2 hours. We don't have access to automatic misting systems, so we have to go by hand and scheduled intervals. You'll also noticed every enclosure SHOULD have a thermometer and hygrometer. Every Petsmart WILL have a book that states what humidity levels certain reptiles need to be kept at. If you are ever at a Petsmart and notice the humidity is low KINDLY point it out to a staff member and I am sure they will be happy to mist the lizards.

Substrate. It is Petsmarts policy to provide fresh substrate once every week. The tropical lizards get coco fiber because it helps retain humidity and it's 100% digestable in small amounts. My dog eats dirt and rocks by accident quite often, but can still pass them. I know lizards are a smaller scale, but you are forgetting that coco fiber breaks down.

Lastly,
I actually quit my much better paying job to join Petsmart to provide appropriate care for the reptiles and make sure that customers know what they are getting in to. I have gotten employee of the month twice in 4 months since joining because I have completely turned the reptile department around and customers are constantly giving me great reviews.
Petsmart isn't perfect, and they won't change because you complained to corp. But they will change with knowledgable staff.
I also want to say, I used to feel the same way about large pet store chains like Petsmart, so I decided to do something about that was above and beyond. I'm not saying quit your job and do what I did, but talk to the staff instead of the head. Not a single person I work with has complained about doing a little extra for the health of the chameleons. I even have every lizard on a proper supplementation schedule now, and all employees follow it. Guys, stop complaining and blabbing about it on the internet. Instead go in to the store you are upset with and talk to them!

 

[ridgebax1]

Okay. I decided to finally crack and tell y'all a little bit about myself.
Water dishes are 100% required. It was stated before that the general public does not understand that not every reptile needs a water bowl. So if they saw a pet without access to water, they would be outraged.

Instead go in to the store you are upset with and talk to them!

I tried talking to the employees at PETCO and the manager was steadfast in telling me the setups are defined by a vet in the corporate offices and would not budge an inch on their husbandry. The enclosure was setup according to corporate policy. They were not at all interested in changing the way they do things.

To Trent. I buy crickets in bulk, I have two chams and a bearded dragon and buy 1000 crickets at a time. I have the bins set up so the "floor" is made of screen and the bin sits on a black plastic thing that was made for boots to sit on to dry. The frass falls through the screen and I can dump it frequently. They really don't smell that bad with this set-up.

 

[tony19]

Just a thought, but maybe these chain pet stores put them selves in this position. Making it policy to have a water dish so people wont complain. Instead of just explaining why there isn't one. Seems like there taking the back door on these things. Same with substrate, just explain why to people post up signs and what not. If they just didn't have water dishes in the beginning maybe people would see things differently. My local pet store doesn't have water dishes or substrate in there cham tanks or any other lizard that doesn't need these things.

Just my 2 cents

 

[shmeenakoz]

Although I applaud your efforts, as I posted on this topic a couple of ,on this ago, there are a couple of things you need to realize.

As the last poster alluded to, they would recieve a significant more amount of concerns if the cages did not have fresh water available in bowls from the general public. as far as substrate is involved, same thing. Aesthetics come into play here. The public would be outraged in what would appear to them to be sterile, lifeless cages that we consider proper husbandry.

Do the big boxes care about the lives of the animals, I am sure they do to some extent, but the fact is that live animals account for 4% of total sales. Not exactly a motivator to change things to help the bottom line.

To make the changes you propose would cost 100's of thousands of dollars In Training and physical changes not to mention Cost structure changes from the vendors that supply those cages 'decorations'. To that point, saving the life of the $8 veiled is probably not a priority in comparison.

Finally, and most importantly, if you really care about this situation, you will stop shopping there for crickets and all else. They make more money on selling you crickets than they ever will in the chameleon itself.

I find it laughable all of these posts where people common here indignant about the care of the animals but yet I will give my money to support them.

You want to stop the behavior, stop supporting them.

Agreed!!! Ever since the day I noticed a dying Jacksons and alerted them to his condition and urged them he needs a vet an hour ago, I vowed to never ever buy a single thing from them ever again!!! Not even if they had Fromm dog food give aways, I'd rather pay full price elsewhere! They are dead to me.

 

[teejayteej]

Okay. I decided to finally crack and tell y'all a little bit about myself.
I work at Petsmart in the fish/ small animals/ birds and reptiles section. Almost every day I personally attend each and every animal, making sure all are healthy. If they appear ill I pull them off the floor and set up a vet appointment and temporary enclosure for them in our quiet room.
Here's a bit about our policy for the reptiles.

Water dishes are 100% required. It was stated before that the general public does not understand that not every reptile needs a water bowl. So if they saw a pet without access to water, they would be outraged.

Misting. I get my coworkers to mist the tropical reptiles 5 times a day, or every 2 hours. We don't have access to automatic misting systems, so we have to go by hand and scheduled intervals. You'll also noticed every enclosure SHOULD have a thermometer and hygrometer. Every Petsmart WILL have a book that states what humidity levels certain reptiles need to be kept at. If you are ever at a Petsmart and notice the humidity is low KINDLY point it out to a staff member and I am sure they will be happy to mist the lizards.

Substrate. It is Petsmarts policy to provide fresh substrate once every week. The tropical lizards get coco fiber because it helps retain humidity and it's 100% digestible in small amounts. My dog eats dirt and rocks by accident quite often, but can still pass them. I know lizards are a smaller scale, but you are forgetting that coco fiber breaks down.

Lastly,
I actually quit my much better paying job to join Petsmart to provide appropriate care for the reptiles and make sure that customers know what they are getting in to. I have gotten employee of the month twice in 4 months since joining because I have completely turned the reptile department around and customers are constantly giving me great reviews.
Petsmart isn't perfect, and they won't change because you complained to corp. But they will change with knowledgeable staff.
I also want to say, I used to feel the same way about large pet store chains like Petsmart, so I decided to do something about that was above and beyond. I'm not saying quit your job and do what I did, but talk to the staff instead of the head. Not a single person I work with has complained about doing a little extra for the health of the chameleons. I even have every lizard on a proper supplementation schedule now, and all employees follow it. Guys, stop complaining and blabbing about it on the internet. Instead go in to the store you are upset with and talk to them!

I agree with you...I talk with the staff at my local Petsmart and they all love and care deeply for the animals under their care. I agree also that they could do some things differently, but I have found worse conditions in the mom and pop shops than in the big chains.
The big chains have a set care regiment and they require their staff to do the items on the lists every day.
I am not a person that agrees with caging or crating dogs, all pet stores have their dogs and cats in cages and the cages can become soiled and smelly. then you have Vets and pet store workers telling you that it is proper to crate you dogs.
There will be good stores and bad stores in any chain, you can not blame the chain for everything. they can not individualize the care regiment for each animal the way we do when we get our pets home and learn their personalities.
I understand the concern about the substrate, but we need to remember that these animals live in the wild and their food in not going to be clean or as easy to catch. I think sometimes we need to remember that they are not as fragile as we think they are if they are healthy to begin with.

 

[Guaca mole]

SInce buying my chameleon (yes, at a PetSmart) I have checked on the chams in that store whenever I have gone in there for crickets.

After getting the crickets I told the girl that got them for me that the cham looked very dehydrated (dark brown in color) and asked her to go mist him. I walked over to the enclosure with her and she opened it and gave it a good misting. The poor cham drank from the spray bottle! She kept spraying and he hopped out of the enclosure. I put my hand up to get him and he went onto me and up my arm and tried to get into my hoody. Poor baby was begging to go home with me.

I explained to her about the water bowl and how they needed a dripper running for him and plants for that water to run down, no substrate, not housing two chams together blah, blah, blah. She did dump out the water bowl (it was full of dirty substrate water) but my diatribe probably went in one ear and out the other.

I did what I could that day to try to educate one employee. Having just found out that the cham I have had for only one month has MBD, I cant say that I was very surprised when I got his diagnosis. All I can do from this point forward is do the very best I can to help him hopefully recover from this and not give them any more of my money. I should go back there and demand reimbursement for the vet bill that cost me 2 times what I paid for the chameleon. Not that they care or even have to care after 2 weeks is up.

Those stores bottom line is about profits. It is up to us to check on those animals and politely ask/demand that they get a misting. Ask the manager where the dripper is if there is not one, why is there no UVB light present and complain about the substrate. Sooner or later they will get tired of hearing the same complaints, and guess what? I dont care.

I wont shop there but it wont stop me from stopping in and asking an employee to open their cage to spray it down.

 

[New2chamz]

I tried talking to the employees at PETCO and the manager was steadfast in telling me the setups are defined by a vet in the corporate offices and would not budge an inch on their husbandry. The enclosure was setup according to corporate policy. They were not at all interested in changing the way they do things.

To Trent. I buy crickets in bulk, I have two chams and a bearded dragon and buy 1000 crickets at a time. I have the bins set up so the "floor" is made of screen and the bin sits on a black plastic thing that was made for boots to sit on to dry. The frass falls through the screen and I can dump it frequently. They really don't smell that bad with this set-up.

Nice dude super good idea

 

[New2chamz]

SInce buying my chameleon (yes, at a PetSmart) I have checked on the chams in that store whenever I have gone in there for crickets.

After getting the crickets I told the girl that got them for me that the cham looked very dehydrated (dark brown in color) and asked her to go mist him. I walked over to the enclosure with her and she opened it and gave it a good misting. The poor cham drank from the spray bottle! She kept spraying and he hopped out of the enclosure. I put my hand up to get him and he went onto me and up my arm and tried to get into my hoody. Poor baby was begging to go home with me.

I explained to her about the water bowl and how they needed a dripper running for him and plants for that water to run down, no substrate, not housing two chams together blah, blah, blah. She did dump out the water bowl (it was full of dirty substrate water) but my diatribe probably went in one ear and out the other.

I did what I could that day to try to educate one employee. Having just found out that the cham I have had for only one month has MBD, I cant say that I was very surprised when I got his diagnosis. All I can do from this point forward is do the very best I can to help him hopefully recover from this and not give them any more of my money. I should go back there and demand reimbursement for the vet bill that cost me 2 times what I paid for the chameleon. Not that they care or even have to care after 2 weeks is up.

Those stores bottom line is about profits. It is up to us to check on those animals and politely ask/demand that they get a misting. Ask the manager where the dripper is if there is not one, why is there no UVB light present and complain about the substrate. Sooner or later they will get tired of hearing the same complaints, and guess what? I dont care.

I wont shop there but it wont stop me from stopping in and asking an employee to open their cage to spray it down.

Nothings going to change about petsmart ive explained my horrible experiance there b4 the employee that sold me my cham told me to buy the exact same setup substrate no uvb just a natuaral light and after more research i went back infurriated they returned everything and sold me proper stuff @ 50% off so i would go back and raise hell and sorry about your cham it was prob from feeding him sick discusting cricks from there store

 

[Denverbug]

Hey just so you know they do mist the chameleons at least twice a day at petsmart, I am not defending the rest of their lack of care but i said the same thing about the water bowl to them and their response was very political which was we do mist and understand that chameleons need a moving water source, however if they did not provide a water bowl in the enclosure than they would receive a million complaints from the general population that does not understand chameleons on how cruel they are for not providing water when the enclosure is dry between misting sessions.

Then they should explain to the public why there is no water in there. Instead of putting these chams in harms way. If u ask me explaining why there is no water bowl in there could only help people who are truly interested in purchasing one. Pure laziness if u can't explain why u keep the animals the way they should be kept.

 

[ReptiGeek]

I agree with you...I talk with the staff at my local Petsmart and they all love and care deeply for the animals under their care. I agree also that they could do some things differently, but I have found worse conditions in the mom and pop shops than in the big chains.
The big chains have a set care regiment and they require their staff to do the items on the lists every day.
I am not a person that agrees with caging or crating dogs, all pet stores have their dogs and cats in cages and the cages can become soiled and smelly. then you have Vets and pet store workers telling you that it is proper to crate you dogs.
There will be good stores and bad stores in any chain, you can not blame the chain for everything. they can not individualize the care regiment for each animal the way we do when we get our pets home and learn their personalities.
I understand the concern about the substrate, but we need to remember that these animals live in the wild and their food in not going to be clean or as easy to catch. I think sometimes we need to remember that they are not as fragile as we think they are if they are healthy to begin with.

Thank you TJ for understanding and agreeing. I like your point that we (employees) cannot individualize every single animal in the store. We try to provide the best care we can for the amount of animals within that said store.
Also just quickly want to say that crating your dog is actually something that most dog owners do recommend. Dogs still have a natural instinct to den. Unfortunately many dog owners don't crate properly (shoving your dog into a crate is improper) so the dog becomes traumatized by crates. If you entice your dog with positive encouragement and treats when they go in to their cate on their own free will, then they associate that said crate as their own personal den. My pup goes in to her crate every night now with zero issues and she is only 13 weeks old.

To everyone else out there, I am not sure if you know this but Petsmart does not actually sell Dogs or Cats. Petsmart gives their cat & dog space to local rescue and adoption facilities to help find homes for homeless pets. My Petsmart doesn't even adopt out dog's because it is space limited (the cage sizes were deemed to small by OUR company, even though the adoption centre said they would be okay). So always keep that in mind if you ever do decide to go into Petsmart, because I never knew that until I started working there, and I thought that was a pretty amazing attribute about the store.

ALSO. Petsmart corp will pay the veterinarian fees of every single sick animal. If you see a sick animal in petsmart, point it out! An employee will pull it off the floor (maybe not immediately since we also have to set up temporary enclosures in the back) and if it is a veterinarian required illness (you can also point it out if it is) then they will schedule the next available *earliest* vet appointment. It's Petsmart policy to do this, so do not hesitate to point it out!

 

[ReptiGeek]

Then they should explain to the public why there is no water in there. Instead of putting these chams in harms way. If u ask me explaining why there is no water bowl in there could only help people who are truly interested in purchasing one. Pure laziness if u can't explain why u keep the animals the way they should be kept.

A small water bowl is a hazard to a chameleon? Did you know that the water bowls and water at petmsart is changed every day? Did you know that most chameleons live in an area where it rains every day for hours at a time and water can accumulate up to bog levels on the ground? Did you know that a water bowl in the enclosure will also help with the humidity levels, which is especially important without an automatic misting system?
Denverbug, this is not laziness. Laziness would be not cleaning the water bowls or providing fresh water, not misting at least twice a day, and not cleaning out the entire enclosure once a week.

 

[ridgebax1]

I agree, it is stupid to set up a cage improperly because someone might complain about the lack of access to water! It would be much simpler to explain the proper husbandry to the person complaining or even easier put a sign on the cage explaining why there is no water bowl. The problem is that the employee may not even know the correct way to water a chameleon. What was most infuriating the day I was speaking to the manager at PETCO was that the chameleon looked ill and she insisted it was cleared by the vet "just the other day". She also said that the chameleon was well known to the veterinary practice suggesting it had been chronically ill over a long period of time. I told her that it may have been cleared the other day but it is clearly ill again and should be taken back to the vet. I don't know what happened to it as I left my cart where it was standing and walked out of the store. I haven't been back since.

 

[Denverbug]

A small water bowl is a hazard to a chameleon? Did you know that the water bowls and water at petmsart is changed every day? Did you know that most chameleons live in an area where it rains every day for hours at a time and water can accumulate up to bog levels on the ground? Did you know that a water bowl in the enclosure will also help with the humidity levels, which is especially important without an automatic misting system?
Denverbug, this is not laziness. Laziness would be not cleaning the water bowls or providing fresh water, not misting at least twice a day, and not cleaning out the entire enclosure once a week.

I do understand how chams live in the wild. It's not just the water or even just chams. But every animal should be kept in proper conditions. If u have to explain to a few people a day why their kept the way they are I don't see a problem with that . What I do have a problem with is keeping them in bad conditions because your to lazy to explain how they should be kept

 

[tony19]

Then they should explain to the public why there is no water in there. Instead of putting these chams in harms way. If u ask me explaining why there is no water bowl in there could only help people who are truly interested in purchasing one. Pure laziness if u can't explain why u keep the animals the way they should be kept.

Exactly

Thank you TJ for understanding and agreeing. I like your point that we (employees) cannot individualize every single animal in the store. We try to provide the best care we can for the amount of animals within that said store.
Also just quickly want to say that crating your dog is actually something that most dog owners do recommend. Dogs still have a natural instinct to den. Unfortunately many dog owners don't crate properly (shoving your dog into a crate is improper) so the dog becomes traumatized by crates. If you entice your dog with positive encouragement and treats when they go in to their cate on their own free will, then they associate that said crate as their own personal den. My pup goes in to her crate every night now with zero issues and she is only 13 weeks old.

To everyone else out there, I am not sure if you know this but Petsmart does not actually sell Dogs or Cats. Petsmart gives their cat & dog space to local rescue and adoption facilities to help find homes for homeless pets. My Petsmart doesn't even adopt out dog's because it is space limited (the cage sizes were deemed to small by OUR company, even though the adoption centre said they would be okay). So always keep that in mind if you ever do decide to go into Petsmart, because I never knew that until I started working there, and I thought that was a pretty amazing attribute about the store.

ALSO. Petsmart corp will pay the veterinarian fees of every single sick animal. If you see a sick animal in petsmart, point it out! An employee will pull it off the floor (maybe not immediately since we also have to set up temporary enclosures in the back) and if it is a veterinarian required illness (you can also point it out if it is) then they will schedule the next available *earliest* vet appointment. It's Petsmart policy to do this, so do not hesitate to point it out!

My local reptile store has everything that is needed for all there animals. specifically th3re chams, they have no substrate in there cage, lots of vines, a plant or 2, all the right lighting, and a misting system ( not need but its there ). They have a store full of reptiles and they meet the needs of each species. they keep a lot of reptiles.

I do agree they can't get to know each and every individual animals needs, but you can meet there basic need witch means no water bowls, or substrate, and proper lighting. Or don't keep lizards, if you can't meet those expectations.

I do think its pretty cool that they sublet space for local adoption agency's. They get brownie points for that

 

[FrankTheTank]

Then they should explain to the public why there is no water in there. Instead of putting these chams in harms way. If u ask me explaining why there is no water bowl in there could only help people who are truly interested in purchasing one. Pure laziness if u can't explain why u keep the animals the way they should be kept.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!