I just wish these places would stop carrying Cameleons, and other reptiles period. I have noticed that my local pet stores are slowly going downhill, downsizing. Only one of the 3 carries reptiles at all now....which I think is awesome. The particular store that still has reptiles carries Senegals and Vields....the last time I was in there the only veiled was on clearance, he was sleeping during the day...we all know how bad that is, and the Senegals, well they are always sleeping no matter if they have a new batch or not. They do at least have UVB lighting and heat lamps at a reasonable temp, and drippers. Cages are not tall at all and are glass, I know they never mist. It is just sad, they have no business carrying animals that they are not educated on. Sadly in the end, it's all about money.
So tired of these threads..
- Thread starter ChappyMcChap
- Start date
MagicEngineer
New Member
It is important to understand that you are dealing with large corporations. Even a demonstration outside the store will do nothing since their home office will likely never hear of it. You would actually get more results by simply putting in a customer complaint on their web page every time this situation is observed. Don't get rude or demanding. Just politely let them know what they are doing wrong and why it is wrong. Give them links to proper care sheets and cite articles about the problems caused by improper care. The store managers only do what the head office tells them, so we need to educate their head office. Believe me, they want to take proper care of their inventory because unhealthy animals means profit loss. If we can show them how to make their chams live longer they will happily make the changes. If everyone on this forum will simply do this when they see an improperly cared for cham, in time, the problem will be resolved.
ChappyMcChap
New Member
The one in turkey creek next to the movie theatre. Maybe if you go in as well and voice concerns they will change it. I spoke to corporate I sincerely hope it gets changed. I'm going to check its health again today, maybe there is a nicer manager working. This guy was a tool, and I was nice as can be given the circumstances. I can't fault a customers ignorance, especially if they come here seeking proper care. They said that their veterinary staff outlines how these animals should be kept. I wish I had names and phone numbers of that vet staff that outlines the care guidelines. Im certain of that is the case they are small animal vets not herp or exotic vets. After I had a lengthy conversation with the manager about my concern for the animals well being he tried to get me to buy a blue tongue skink. I'm thinking, really is that all you care about or are you just trying to make me forget about it?
Syn
Avid Member
Petsmart has to set up their cages according to corporate standards. If they were to set it up the right way and a secret shopper from corporate pops in (and because they don't know jack sh..ahem) the store could be reprimanded.
Don't buy the chameleons, that's the best you can do at this point. If they realize they don't sell, they won't order more, but oddly enough chameleons fly off the shelves, probably because of movies like Rango and Rapunzel or whatever. If they survive the owners, great, they found a good home, but if they die, they won't get another. Sad to say, but that's how it is.
Don't buy the chameleons, that's the best you can do at this point. If they realize they don't sell, they won't order more, but oddly enough chameleons fly off the shelves, probably because of movies like Rango and Rapunzel or whatever. If they survive the owners, great, they found a good home, but if they die, they won't get another. Sad to say, but that's how it is.
But here is another poor neglected Cham at petsmart. Talked to the manager and the reptile manager trying to get them to fix it, they insisted corporate makes them set up cages like this. I was pissed, but kept my cool even in the face of the managers blatant condescension. Oh really guy you're an expert on every animal that walks through the door? Anyways, he looked fairly healthy but he was hiding in the farthest coolest corner. I go there regularly so he is new. This shit should be illegal.
That's right, a 50 watt basking bulb and reflector inside the enclosure. Bark chips, a thermometer reading 100+ that apparently doesn't work. A water bowl but they said they mist? Then what's the damn bowl for? Non dusted full size crickets for a juvie. No screen cages or proper care manuals offered. They had a spot where care manuals would be but there were none. The guy wouldnt and said he couldn't fix my concerns so I spent the better part of an hour on the phone with a person voicing my concerns who assured me it would be fixed and I would be contacted. Let's hope so. I want to buy him, but he's $139.99 and we all know there will just be another one. I hope some poor sap doesn't take it home and set it up like that. Animal cruelty here folks, nothing less. Like putting a dog in an aquarium.
Sadly, it IS illegal for them to sell animals without care sheets but this is neither enforced nor monitored....I have "tested" various pet stores by playing dumb and have been given veiled caresheets for pantehrs, etc. in the past
It REALLY needs to be illegal. A pet store should be held to a MUCH HIGHER standard than the average user; there is absolutely no reason for their husbandry practices to be wrong imo.
Benton1576
New Member
So, we all know by now that petsmart are pants, so why bother going in there in the first place?
ScalesTailsandClaws
New Member
pants? And it's because some of us don't have any other options for supplies. I will NEVER buy an animal there, and from now on I will NEVER spend any money there either.
chameleoman
Avid Member
Im just a kid so if anything i say is wrong just nicely correct me please i thought about it and i cant do anything to talk to managers because im just a kid but how bout on HUGE complaint email and a huge signed petition to the manager of all the petcos or smoething? would that be worth a try?
i thought about it and i cant do anything to talk to managers because im just a kid but how bout on HUGE complaint email and a huge signed petition to the manager of all the petcos or smoething? would that be worth a try?
ScalesTailsandClaws
New Member
Im just a kid so if anything i say is wrong just nicely correct me please
That'd definitely be worth a try. Don't put yourself down just because you're a kid. Get EVERYONE on the forums to sign, and then bring it to www.kingsnake.com
Make sure the email gets the the highest level of the PetSmart Corporation. Make sure you have evidence to back up your claims. If we all send emails, perhaps we can make change.
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
Chameleopatrick is right. Look at the people that work there, it's not their fault. I tried to get a part-time job at Petsmart to fill some time between summer courses and I was rejected for being too overqualified because I am double-majoring in biology, have years of experience working at vet clinics, and years of volunteer time at wildlife rescues and a nature center at a Museum. They didn't want someone as experienced and educated as myself working that kind of job.
Don't blame the kids working there, to them it's another minimum wage job, they have no power to make changes and probably don't care enough to do independent research and see what they can do. More importantly, they probably rather KEEP their job than make waves and make improvements for the animals.
I shop there for dog things all the time, and am getting my dogs canine good citizen certified there. But I don't buy reptiles or reptile supplies from there. I choose to not support their reptile department with my money, while I do support the dog supplies they carry.
If you really want to do something contact your animal services for more info, to see who you'd need to contact for further action. The next step would be to send photo documentation to corporate, with polite information on what is wrong and how this should be corrected.
Don't blame the kids working there, to them it's another minimum wage job, they have no power to make changes and probably don't care enough to do independent research and see what they can do. More importantly, they probably rather KEEP their job than make waves and make improvements for the animals.
I shop there for dog things all the time, and am getting my dogs canine good citizen certified there. But I don't buy reptiles or reptile supplies from there. I choose to not support their reptile department with my money, while I do support the dog supplies they carry.
If you really want to do something contact your animal services for more info, to see who you'd need to contact for further action. The next step would be to send photo documentation to corporate, with polite information on what is wrong and how this should be corrected.
DanSB
Avid Member
I feel a letter as fllows to the corporate and store management sent in mass would be the most effective route.
The management team is here
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=93506&p=irol-govManage
Before this happens we would need at least 3 specific instances with specific critiques along with a good care sheet reviewed by some of the more experienced members here.
It is IMPERATIVE that civility and intelligence is maintained along with no hostility towards the corporation. People in general ignore crack pot animal rights groups and their attacks are not often taken seriously. Stick to the facts and stick to animal health.
Below is a draft of what I would write but it still needs polishing. I am used to writing to high level executives and business communications in general. I would volunteer to draft a better document if there is enough interest and I can get support for a good care sheet and some specific problems. I have never seen a Chameleon in a Petsmart store in Sacramento though.
"To Petsmart corporate management team,
It is our opinion through a combined of over 100 years of experience in keeping and breeding chameleons that the care we have observed in Petsmart stores of chameleons offered for sale is not only lacking but is also dangerous for the animals themselves.
Because the statements found on your corporate Website clearly show that the care of animals is of concern to the management team it is hoped this plea for change in care methodology mandated at the corporate level will be seriously considered. We do not need to quote your mission / vision statements as you are already fully aware of them. It is hoped that steps will be taken to live up to these care statements when it comes to care of amphibians and reptiles, specifically in this instance chameleons.
We have attached several specific chameleon set ups observed at Petsmart locations with critiques and reasons why they are dangerous for the animals along with a basic care sheet reviewed by some of the top chameleon breeders, biologists, and expereinced keepers in the country.
Please take the time to review this as chameleons are wonderful and unique animals with unique care requirements to truly thrive.
Your consideration is very much appreciated in this matter.
Sincerely the below signed,
Your name here"
The management team is here
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=93506&p=irol-govManage
Before this happens we would need at least 3 specific instances with specific critiques along with a good care sheet reviewed by some of the more experienced members here.
It is IMPERATIVE that civility and intelligence is maintained along with no hostility towards the corporation. People in general ignore crack pot animal rights groups and their attacks are not often taken seriously. Stick to the facts and stick to animal health.
Below is a draft of what I would write but it still needs polishing. I am used to writing to high level executives and business communications in general. I would volunteer to draft a better document if there is enough interest and I can get support for a good care sheet and some specific problems. I have never seen a Chameleon in a Petsmart store in Sacramento though.
"To Petsmart corporate management team,
It is our opinion through a combined of over 100 years of experience in keeping and breeding chameleons that the care we have observed in Petsmart stores of chameleons offered for sale is not only lacking but is also dangerous for the animals themselves.
Because the statements found on your corporate Website clearly show that the care of animals is of concern to the management team it is hoped this plea for change in care methodology mandated at the corporate level will be seriously considered. We do not need to quote your mission / vision statements as you are already fully aware of them. It is hoped that steps will be taken to live up to these care statements when it comes to care of amphibians and reptiles, specifically in this instance chameleons.
We have attached several specific chameleon set ups observed at Petsmart locations with critiques and reasons why they are dangerous for the animals along with a basic care sheet reviewed by some of the top chameleon breeders, biologists, and expereinced keepers in the country.
Please take the time to review this as chameleons are wonderful and unique animals with unique care requirements to truly thrive.
Your consideration is very much appreciated in this matter.
Sincerely the below signed,
Your name here"
ScalesTailsandClaws
New Member
I can give you EVIDENCE. I'll try and see if I can't make my final purchase from petsmart their Jacksons chameleon. I'll take it to the vet (it has respiratory infection due to its gaping and thick mucus.) and have every exam possible done. I'll then keep the animal in my care for 6 months, and in that time I hypothesize that its condition will drastically increase. Then I will take the animal back to the vet to have all of the same tests done. Given I'm correct, this will prove that petsmarts care of their chameleons is inadequate, making the animals acquire illness that they would not receive under proper care. That makes it animal abuse.
DanSB
Avid Member
I saw the picture that is really all the evidence I personally need.
The trick is going to be to bypass the gate keepers. I can almost guarantee someone will lose their job regarding corporate mandated poor chameleon care. Especially when the profits can be increased by selling proper care articles with the animal.
It sounds like the set up and care is corporate mandated so contacting the upper management in Phoenix will be the trick.
They will ignore emotional people and only address their concerns if they can get national recognition like PETA did. PETA who by the way hurts our cause significantly. They win every time a pet is not properly cared for.
We need a detailed Jacksons, Veiled, and Panther care sheets that people with credentials will sign off on. IE Biologists, long time breeders, and vets who specialize in chameleons.
Then we need these same exerts to explain the risks of petsmart's current care and recommendations.
This HAS to be done professionally to have any real lasting effect.
Unless you have provable credentials don't try to provide care information they will not listen.
The trick is going to be to bypass the gate keepers. I can almost guarantee someone will lose their job regarding corporate mandated poor chameleon care. Especially when the profits can be increased by selling proper care articles with the animal.
It sounds like the set up and care is corporate mandated so contacting the upper management in Phoenix will be the trick.
They will ignore emotional people and only address their concerns if they can get national recognition like PETA did. PETA who by the way hurts our cause significantly. They win every time a pet is not properly cared for.
We need a detailed Jacksons, Veiled, and Panther care sheets that people with credentials will sign off on. IE Biologists, long time breeders, and vets who specialize in chameleons.
Then we need these same exerts to explain the risks of petsmart's current care and recommendations.
This HAS to be done professionally to have any real lasting effect.
Unless you have provable credentials don't try to provide care information they will not listen.
chameleoman
Avid Member
i would be happy to sign a petition and get plenty of photos of their setups and of not just chameleons but other reptiles to but the problem is i got to PETCO not PETSMART, petco always has 1 week old chameleons there in poor condition and just put a new jackson in poor care that had its eyes closed for half an hour so i sould say petco and then petsmart because i see that most petsmarts dont even have that many reptiles but, is petco who does and we should get chris anderson, dave weldon, and other long time keepers some one should pm them to jump on this thread! and hopefully. . . just maybe. . . . we could get them if not to get rid of reptiles completly but to at LEAST put them in the correct habbitats!!!!
and hopefully. . . just maybe. . . . we could get them if not to get rid of reptiles completly but to at LEAST put them in the correct habbitats!!!!
DanSB
Avid Member
i would be happy to sign a petition and get plenty of photos of their setups and of not just chameleons but other reptiles to but the problem is i got to PETCO not PETSMART, petco always has 1 week old chameleons there in poor condition and just put a new jackson in poor care that had its eyes closed for half an hour so i sould say petco and then petsmart because i see that most petsmarts dont even have that many reptiles but, is petco who does and we should get chris anderson, dave weldon, and other long time keepers some one should pm them to jump on this thread!
My personal feeling is that watchdog organization for herp care in general would be a good idea. Distributing care sheets, best practice for shipping and transportation, and all in all improving the life and health of captive herp populations. As an independent watchdog group it would be possible to certify retailers, breeders, distributors etc to allow for consumers to know who cares for their herps correctly.
But I am huge fan of business practice transparency. You would eed far less government regulation if businesses were forced to be transparent in their practices allowing consumers to regulate.
Getting off my soap box any concerted effort here will need authorization from site management. This is a private web site funded by sponsors and as such we need to ensure all actions are not counter to sponsors continuing to support the site.
Also because of this providing care sheets and assistance to many of the sponsors competitors may be in direct conflict.
I personally think it would not as supporting proper care for animals can only make more happy chameleon owners and more potential business down the road. But this isn't my choice.
ScalesTailsandClaws
New Member
I will get a permit to protest in downtown blacksburg. (Petsmart is in a private mall in Christiansburg so I'd get arrested there.) Blacksburg is an eco-friendly area that loves small, local business and not large chains like Petsmart. They'll support my cause, and Blacksburg is only 10 minutes from Christiansburg. I'll have a sign saying "Help stop animal abuse, Don't shop at PetSmart!" Extreme, but accurate and effective. I'll set up a table with my own chameleon and caging and a few hundred GOOD care sheets. Then I'll have pictures from PetSmart of their Chameleon husbandry and I'll point out exactly what's wrong. I'll also contact the News and see if I can get them to make a story about it. My business has already made the News once when I did a show for Prices Fork Elementary.
This should make it to the Corporate level and along with other complaints from all of you, maybe we can get some change. Help me come up with something to say to the news reporters.
This should make it to the Corporate level and along with other complaints from all of you, maybe we can get some change. Help me come up with something to say to the news reporters.
chameleoman
Avid Member
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
I don't know how much the general public would boycott Petsmart/Petco. I certainly wouldn't, they are the only places nearby where I can get my dog food brand. The only one independent pet store I know doesn't carry my brand, because it's an expensive one. For people that have dogs and cats, they won't care enough to boycott their supply source.
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