Sold as Male Baby Panther Chameleon from Pet Store - Need help confirming sex

[SamanthaLynn15]

Hello Everyone,

I was recommended to this site with a very positive review! I was told this is the best place to go for advice and there is tons of knowledgeable and friendly pros here.

I adopted a baby panther chameleon from Petland (Canadian Pet Store). I was told it was a 5 month old male but the staff seemed very uneducated and sent me home with a ton of incorrect information. I have done tons of research and I am stuck on wether my little guy is a female or male and he appears to be younger then 5 months imo. I went to the Calgary reptile expo and explained my experience to some vendors and they are the ones who recommended me to inquire via chameleon forums.

Now the reason this is important for me. If this is indeed a female I need to be educated properly on female care, egg laying, etc. I feel it’s the pet stores responsibility to educate me on this and they gave zero information. I will be speaking to the head manager of reptiles tomorrow but I was hoping to get your guys opinion!

I have included lots of photos. I know it can be tricky to sex these guys but any input is greatly appreciated! Note in first two photos there was a dark red heat lamp on that is no longer being used. It may make it appear more red. Provided multiple photos from different times to show the different changes in tone/colour.

Also I have noticed wrinkling along his bridge if his back when he is standing very straight. This has been present since bringing him home. You may notice this in some of the photos. Could this be a sign of dehydration or anything negative. Eyes don’t seem to be sunken and I have watched it eat and drink. He is eating regularly and his enclosure is climatized at the perfect temperature and humidity 75-85 F and humidity 75-85% sometimes a bit higher as it went into shed when it first came home so I bumped the humidity to 85-90% as advised by petland.

I will be eagerly checking for responses and again any feedback is greatly greatly appreciated. I want to make sure I’m as educated as possible so I can give this little one the best care possible.

 

[bobbydigital]

You've come to the right place. In my opinion your cham looks younger than 5 months. As far as sex, my guess is as good as yours. I'll leave that to the members with more experience in that area. If you fill out the how to ask for help form and post your answers in a reply to this thread, we can give you feedback on your husbandry if you'd like.

 

[lycan_megura0523]

I can't really tell from the photos if your baby is male or female as the baby does look a little younger than 5 months. it doesn't really look dehydrated but it does look thin. it is a good sign that it is eating and drinking what are your feeders? I would go ahead and learn about female panther care just in case that way you know what to expect. I have a female veiled and a couple female quadricornis graciliors all of which have laying bins at the ready.

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

You've come to the right place. In my opinion your cham looks younger than 5 months. As far as sex, my guess is as good as yours. I'll leave that to the members with more experience in that area. If you fill out the how to ask for help form and post your answers in a reply to this thread, we can give you feedback on your husbandry if you'd like.

Bobbydigital,

Thank you I greatly appreciate the information and I will definitely fill out the how to ask for help form and post my answers. Thank you for being so helpful and providing me with this resource and offering to provide feedback on my husbandry.

I didn’t think this little one is 5 months. It seems quite small to be rehomed by a pet store but I may be wrong. Even compared to 4 month old panthers it seems to be smaller so I was thinking maybe just at 3 months of age, it’s hard to tell because I am still a beginner but I have been doing a lot of reserach. It can be hard to find consisten info online though and that’s why I’m so excited I was recommended to the forum it seems like the best possible platform for resources, learning, community help, litterally everything!

It’s 1 am my time so I will be sure to reply back with the filled out form with my answers tomorrow and I look forward to your response when you get the chance.

You are fantastic!

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

I can't really tell from the photos if your baby is male or female as the baby does look a little younger than 5 months. it doesn't really look dehydrated but it does look thin. it is a good sign that it is eating and drinking what are your feeders? I would go ahead and learn about female panther care just in case that way you know what to expect. I have a female veiled and a couple female quadricornis graciliors all of which have laying bins at the ready.

Thanks for the feedback Iycan_megura0523,

I agree it looks thin I was a little concerned and it’s been that way since bringing home. Originally I was sent home with 4-5 week old crickets they were huge way to big I was way to worried about choking. So I went back complained and they said they made a big mistake that they were low on cricket stock and that’s all they had so that’s what they had me purchase and sent me home with. I was then given week old crickets and told to feed 5 per day I notice he eats them up and he seems skinny so I have been adding extras up to 8-9 week olds a day.

I will be speaking to the head district reptile manager for Petland to go over my questions and concerns with how they adopted this fella out. It scares me because of how little info they provided and the incorrect info given, I want to save future customers from this! I will be getting very detailed information from him and will check back in here and update on the information I am provided to ensure it’s validity and make sure there is no concerns with the advice provided. Unfortunately Petland has let me down, they need to put care into educating the customers, it horrified me that this little guy could have gone home to someone who may not bother to research and just took the very basic and incomplete advice the pet store provided on top of them sending me home with crickets that would have choked and killed my chameleon had I not done my fair share of research before bringing it home and knew better.

I was told by the Petland reptile employee that females won’t lay eggs until they are towards their end of life (4-5years old). I was told there was zero need for a lay box for a female at that age and that it wouldn’t be needed for years which I believe is wrong. After doing lots of research I have heard of females being egg bound at 1 year and passing shortly after. I made sure to ask them if by chance it was a female if there was any major differences and was simply told nope other then colour and they made no mention of egg laying, life span differences, the important things. To me colour isn’t important it’s being educated properly and providing that animal with the best love and care possible.

Have a fantastic day!

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

Still wondering on the sex so if any panther chameleon specialists who are educated on sexing baby panthers want to chime in and add their opinion that would be great!

Here is some new photos, it gets very light (I think I am seeing some red maybe peach) tones like the photo around night time it seems, also maybe when its warm? It was hiding in the foliage but I tried to get some to show the tone as it’s not captured in the above photos!

And a sincere thank you to everyone else’s information and feedback on age, care, etc!

I am so happy with this forum.

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

If I can provide any other photos to make sexing or aging easier just let me know!

 

[ERKleRose]

Looks female to me, but it’s a little hard to tell! Awesome job on all of your research and taking action, it’s something to be proud of! Female panthers can develope eggs as early as 6-7 months of age, and yours looks like 3 months like you said, great guess! Could you fill out the ask for help form, please? https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ It’ll make sure your husbandry is all correct! And adding a better picture of the base of her tail will help with sexing! Add in a pic of her enclosure while your at it. The panther care sheet here has tons of info on care and lay bins and general info on females, etc!

 

[ERKleRose]

Here’s the care sheet: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/
At that age, you’ll want to feed appropriately sized feeders as much as she wants to eat multiple times a day. Make sure to gutload and dust, too! Again, awesome job!

 

[ERKleRose]

Here’s the care sheet: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/
At that age, you’ll want to feed appropriately sized feeders as much as she wants to eat multiple times a day. Make sure to gutload and dust, too! Again, awesome job!

Sorry, 3 months is the cut off for that feeding info, but if she’s a bit thin, let her eat as much as she wants once a day

 

[Syreptyon]

I agree. Female. No bulge at the tail base

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

Looks female to me, but it’s a little hard to tell! Awesome job on all of your research and taking action, it’s something to be proud of! Female panthers can develope eggs as early as 6-7 months of age, and yours looks like 3 months like you said, great guess! Could you fill out the ask for help form, please? https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ It’ll make sure your husbandry is all correct! And adding a better picture of the base of her tail will help with sexing! Add in a pic of her enclosure while your at it. The panther care sheet here has tons of info on care and lay bins and general info on females, etc!

ERKleRose,

I apologize to get back here so late. The reason I haven’t responded to everyone yet is I have been speaking with the Petland reptile district manager about some of my concerns etc. and have been working through all my options.

Basically this poor girl is so thin and just a few days over 3 months. I was grossly misinformed by the reptile staff at the location I purchased. I was also told they missed feeding the day of purchase and I purchased in the evening. This makes me concerned that she was not being properly fed/taken care of.

We decided it’s best for her at this young age and at her current health to bring her back to a Petland location in my home town where a girl works who is in charge of all the chameleons for the province and sees after every chameleon before they are sent out to a Petland. They will no longer sell panthers or chameleons in general at the location I adopted this from due to all the concerns I brought up and there isn’t currently a reptile manager at that location and the staff just aren’t knowledgeable enough. I did all my research to provide this girl with the best love and care and was ready to commit for the long haul but I feel this is best for its care as I’m a beginner and there is concerns that must be addressed and she will be going back to an expert!

Now here’s where I’m at! I think it’s best I adopt a male preferably around the 6 month old age as a beginner. I have done tons of research and feel that this is my best option. Later down the line I would love to own a female but for my first I think a male is the most responsible choice.

Here’s where I need your guys help!

They believe they have a male I was told they are 80% sure it’s a male and this is coming from the district reptile manager who has panther chameleon experience. He is not 100% sure but pretty confident he said it’s still challenging at 6 months of age to sex.

I was provided these two photos! In the photos it is very dark because she picked it up and it was a bit stressed. I was advised it is normally green and red in colour. I don’t see a bulge but at 6 months it’s not sexually mature but the tail base seem much wider to me and has a more profound taper from base to tip.

I was hoping to get your guys’s opinion on this guy and whether you agree that it is a male. Does this seem like s good candidate to bring home, what’s your opinions everyone?


They have also reached out to all other Petlands in Alberta asking them to send in photos of any panther chameleons they have and they will try to find a male this way to. I was advised that looking at hatch dates the replies they get back will mostly be for either very young 3 month old panthers or 1 year old mature panthers. At 1 year it’s much easier to sex but I was hoping to adopt one around 6 months so I can get it comfortable with me and it’s environment and have more time with it because I know they don’t have the longest life span for a reptile.

Once I have adopted a male and am sure I am receiving a male I will fill out the ask for help form, I just know that now that I am bringing this girl back and moving forward with a male, that it will require different answers and information then I would have requested for the female.


Thanks everyone!

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

I agree. Female. No bulge at the tail base

Thanks Syrepton,

I just replied to ERKleRose with a in depth response. You can see it will be my recent response to him.

The short version is this little girl needs to go back to Petland she’s three months and a few days old with a hatch date of July 18 2018. She is thin and there was concerns with the care provided before she was adopted. The store I adopted her from will no longer carry panther chameleons and I am bringing her back to the girl who is in charge of all the chameleons and cares for them all before they are sent to other store locations. She is an expert and will be able t give the girl lots of love and care and get her fattened up and more stable/healthy!

Now after a lengthy discussion I decided it’s more responsible for me to adopt a male at this point in time. They believe they have a male but are 80% sure. In the two photos I was sent it is very dark in colour, but I was told it was due to stress from being picked up and that it normally shows greens and reds.

I want to get the communities and yours opinion on whether you agree that this is indeed a male. I was told it is 6 months old.

 

[ERKleRose]

ERKleRose,

I apologize to get back here so late. The reason I haven’t responded to everyone yet is I have been speaking with the Petland reptile district manager about some of my concerns etc. and have been working through all my options.

Basically this poor girl is so thin and just a few days over 3 months. I was grossly misinformed by the reptile staff at the location I purchased. I was also told they missed feeding the day of purchase and I purchased in the evening. This makes me concerned that she was not being properly fed/taken care of.

We decided it’s best for her at this young age and at her current health to bring her back to a Petland location in my home town where a girl works who is in charge of all the chameleons for the province and sees after every chameleon before they are sent out to a Petland. They will no longer sell panthers or chameleons in general at the location I adopted this from due to all the concerns I brought up and there isn’t currently a reptile manager at that location and the staff just aren’t knowledgeable enough. I did all my research to provide this girl with the best love and care and was ready to commit for the long haul but I feel this is best for its care as I’m a beginner and there is concerns that must be addressed and she will be going back to an expert!

Now here’s where I’m at! I think it’s best I adopt a male preferably around the 6 month old age as a beginner. I have done tons of research and feel that this is my best option. Later down the line I would love to own a female but for my first I think a male is the most responsible choice.

Here’s where I need your guys help!

They believe they have a male I was told they are 80% sure it’s a male and this is coming from the district reptile manager who has panther chameleon experience. He is not 100% sure but pretty confident he said it’s still challenging at 6 months of age to sex.

I was provided these two photos! In the photos it is very dark because she picked it up and it was a bit stressed. I was advised it is normally green and red in colour. I don’t see a bulge but at 6 months it’s not sexually mature but the tail base seem much wider to me and has a more profound taper from base to tip.

I was hoping to get your guys’s opinion on this guy and whether you agree that it is a male. Does this seem like s good candidate to bring home, what’s your opinions everyone?


They have also reached out to all other Petlands in Alberta asking them to send in photos of any panther chameleons they have and they will try to find a male this way to. I was advised that looking at hatch dates the replies they get back will mostly be for either very young 3 month old panthers or 1 year old mature panthers. At 1 year it’s much easier to sex but I was hoping to adopt one around 6 months so I can get it comfortable with me and it’s environment and have more time with it because I know they don’t have the longest life span for a reptile.

Once I have adopted a male and am sure I am receiving a male I will fill out the ask for help form, I just know that now that I am bringing this girl back and moving forward with a male, that it will require different answers and information then I would have requested for the female.


Thanks everyone!

A few things: First, I’m a female. Second, great job on taking action and actually making a difference! Third, it’s hard to tell the sex of that panther when it’s dark and you can’t really see the base of its tail by the vent. Fourth, I wouldn’t encourage Petland to bring in more chameleons and would purchase from a trusted breeder instead

 

[ERKleRose]

ERKleRose,

I apologize to get back here so late. The reason I haven’t responded to everyone yet is I have been speaking with the Petland reptile district manager about some of my concerns etc. and have been working through all my options.

Basically this poor girl is so thin and just a few days over 3 months. I was grossly misinformed by the reptile staff at the location I purchased. I was also told they missed feeding the day of purchase and I purchased in the evening. This makes me concerned that she was not being properly fed/taken care of.

We decided it’s best for her at this young age and at her current health to bring her back to a Petland location in my home town where a girl works who is in charge of all the chameleons for the province and sees after every chameleon before they are sent out to a Petland. They will no longer sell panthers or chameleons in general at the location I adopted this from due to all the concerns I brought up and there isn’t currently a reptile manager at that location and the staff just aren’t knowledgeable enough. I did all my research to provide this girl with the best love and care and was ready to commit for the long haul but I feel this is best for its care as I’m a beginner and there is concerns that must be addressed and she will be going back to an expert!

Now here’s where I’m at! I think it’s best I adopt a male preferably around the 6 month old age as a beginner. I have done tons of research and feel that this is my best option. Later down the line I would love to own a female but for my first I think a male is the most responsible choice.

Here’s where I need your guys help!

They believe they have a male I was told they are 80% sure it’s a male and this is coming from the district reptile manager who has panther chameleon experience. He is not 100% sure but pretty confident he said it’s still challenging at 6 months of age to sex.

I was provided these two photos! In the photos it is very dark because she picked it up and it was a bit stressed. I was advised it is normally green and red in colour. I don’t see a bulge but at 6 months it’s not sexually mature but the tail base seem much wider to me and has a more profound taper from base to tip.

I was hoping to get your guys’s opinion on this guy and whether you agree that it is a male. Does this seem like s good candidate to bring home, what’s your opinions everyone?


They have also reached out to all other Petlands in Alberta asking them to send in photos of any panther chameleons they have and they will try to find a male this way to. I was advised that looking at hatch dates the replies they get back will mostly be for either very young 3 month old panthers or 1 year old mature panthers. At 1 year it’s much easier to sex but I was hoping to adopt one around 6 months so I can get it comfortable with me and it’s environment and have more time with it because I know they don’t have the longest life span for a reptile.

Once I have adopted a male and am sure I am receiving a male I will fill out the ask for help form, I just know that now that I am bringing this girl back and moving forward with a male, that it will require different answers and information then I would have requested for the female.


Thanks everyone!

My best guess is a female because I don’t see a lump in those pictures. Also, it looks like they’re keeping her in a short glass tank with a water bowl and barely any vines. I defer to my earlier comment of buying from someone else who is an experienced, trusted breeder with a good reputation

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

I can't really tell from the photos if your baby is male or female as the baby does look a little younger than 5 months. it doesn't really look dehydrated but it does look thin. it is a good sign that it is eating and drinking what are your feeders? I would go ahead and learn about female panther care just in case that way you know what to expect. I have a female veiled and a couple female quadricornis graciliors all of which have laying bins at the ready.

Iycan_megura0523, I provided an in depth update to ERKleRose and thank you for pointing out how thin this girl looks.

I had long conversations with Petland and decided it’s most responsible to bring her to an expert who can get her healthy and stable. The pet store location I adopted from will not longer carry panthers due to my experience.

I decided now it’s most responsible I bring home a male.

They believe they have one at 6 months old but are 80% on sex. I have posted the photos in above replies.

Thanks for all your help and I will be filling out an ask for help form for a male once I get this all sorted and have the female safely back with the expert!

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

My best guess is a female because I don’t see a lump in those pictures. Also, it looks like they’re keeping her in a short glass tank with a water bowl and barely any vines. I defer to my earlier comment of buying from someone else who is an experienced, trusted breeder with a good reputation

Thanks ERKleRose, yeah I was concerned I wasn’t sure or confident this is a male and they did check hatch date and it is 6 months. I am really stuck because I paid about 290$ cdn for my girl and they seem to only be willing to do a trade for a male but I am not confident this is a male again and I’m really stuck with how to proceed.

I put easily 700$ into the enclosure maybe up to 1000$ with everything new and not including the panther at 290$ cdn before tax. They were originally selling it for $362 which wa very high compared to other places I have seen.

Do you have some advice. I’m new to this, I’m in Calgary Alberta Canada. I went to our reptile show this past week and couldn’t find any panther breeders or any available. I’m just stuck.

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

A few things: First, I’m a female. Second, great job on taking action and actually making a difference! Third, it’s hard to tell the sex of that panther when it’s dark and you can’t really see the base of its tail by the vent. Fourth, I wouldn’t encourage Petland to bring in more chameleons and would purchase from a trusted breeder instead

I apologize. I shouldn’t use the term guy’s I meant it in a general form but I should have used better terms like everyone’s, etc. I should have put more thought when writing, I am trying to figure out my options I feel stuck on what to do. Petland has other panthers they won’t bring new stock in but they said they will reach out to their other locations to see if any have makes they can send in to me. The one I have provided photos of is at a store across the city. I am bringing this girl back to the chameleon expert there who deals with all chameleons for the provincial district.

When I go into the store I can attempt to get better photos. I did not take these and these are the only two I was provided.

Thanks for all of your help through this.

If you have opinions on what I should do. I can try and demand a refund and maybe the community can recommend reputable breeders who can ship to Calgary Alberta Canada safely as I have tried to find one here in Calgary and have had little luck

 

[ERKleRose]

Thanks ERKleRose, yeah I was concerned I wasn’t sure or confident this is a male and they did check hatch date and it is 6 months. I am really stuck because I paid about 290$ cdn for my girl and they seem to only be willing to do a trade for a male but I am not confident this is a male again and I’m really stuck with how to proceed.

I put easily 700$ into the enclosure maybe up to 1000$ with everything new and not including the panther at 290$ cdn before tax. They were originally selling it for $362 which wa very high compared to other places I have seen.

Do you have some advice. I’m new to this, I’m in Calgary Alberta Canada. I went to our reptile show this past week and couldn’t find any panther breeders or any available. I’m just stuck.

I think there’s a panther breeder in Canada called a Red a River Valley Exotics or something. I easily spent over one grand US dollars on my first cham and set-up. Ask for a full refund because she wasn’t in the best health. If they can’t do that, maybe ask for a partial refund with the rest made up in store credit? A quality cham isn’t cheap
Edit: called Red River Valley Exotics or something

 

[SamanthaLynn15]

I will look into that breeder and do as much research as I can on reputable breeders here. I found a couple contacts at the reptile show who had past experience breeding and seemed great so maybe they have some recommendations so I will reach out and ask as well.

I totally agree with you they are not cheap and we are happy to spend the money on it. Spending around $1000+ I forgot to add the reptifogger and a couple other things was just for the start up. We will continue to add and provide the best possible care for a chameleon. If money was a concern we wouldn’t do it. I’m just sad Petland sold me this 3 month unwell female as a 4.5-5 month old perfectly healthy male and were originally wanting $360-370 cdn but gave us a discount if I believe 20% which took it to 290$ cdn. It’s really not the money I shouldn’t even bring up the money it’s more so the health, they are keeping them in small glass enclosures, no misting or fogger systems it was just unfortunate and had I not been so beginner I wouldn’t have gone with Petland. I thought it was a reputable responsible place who took adoptions seriously and that they would have really educated me and it would be a positive experience.