Some questions about keeping a Chameleon.

[cham1234]

Hello,

I have begun looking for a new hobby as when I moved I was forced to sell my Saltwater reef tank.

I have been interested in Chameleon husbandry for awhile, and have been researching more over the past few weeks. I have some questions, though, that I can't seem to find answers to online:

1. I'd like to keep my first Chameleon on the smaller side. 2ft. is just too long for me. I also think I'm more interested in the smaller mountain-dwelling chameleons (ones that give live birth). Of these, Rudis and Werner's appeal to me. How is their care different than for say Panther or Veiled Chameleons?

2. Would this be ok to buy one of these and not have to buy a larger one later on for those species? http://dragonstrand.com/product/atrium-screen-cage-drip-easy-drainage-tray/ I have read they stay smaller and don't require as large a cage.

3. Do I have to use crickets? I can't stand the sound of crickets chirping and the thought of one getting loose in my house drives me crazy. I think I'm more comfortably with Dubia roaches, silkworms, wax worms, etc. Can I provide adequate nutrition for my Chameleon by not using crickets at all (assuming I'm gutloading)?

4. How bad do Chameleons smell? I know this is a silly question, but is there any noticeable "reptile odor" or something I should be aware of?

5. What do I do with all the water? Where will it go after it falls off my tree and onto/into the bottom? Is there a simple solution to this or am I looking at a DIY project to build a stand?

6. Finally, what is a weekly maintenance schedule like? I already know about daily feedings and misting and such, but what is involved (and how difficult/awkward/gross) is the weekly mait.?

7. I know LilReptile is a sponsor and I've looked at them closely. Does anyone know anything about Backwater Reptiles?

Thanks so much!

 

[RandyE]

1. The mountain dwelling ones typically need a slightly cooler environment with a little higher humidity from what I've seen.

2. Honestly the taller the cage the better. While you might get away with a 29" cage it really is best to have at least a 3 foot tall cage, even for the smaller species. Chameleons are difficult enough as it is to keep in larger environments.

3. You can use roaches as the staple instead of crickets just fine.

4. If you clean their enclosure regularly there should never be more of a smell then something similar to rain.

5. You definitely need to figure something out for the drainage. The cage you linked has a small drainage trey. I spent like $25 at Lowes and built a small tray and stand that is about 6" tall and drilled a little hole through the bottom of the cage. It really isn't difficult.

6. Weekly cleaning is easy for me, I grab the carpet and rinse it out.

 

[cham1234]

Thanks for the help!

Would you say that maintaining the necessary humidity for the mountain species makes them more difficult? Would an automatic mister solve this problem?

I think the Dragon Strand place has many other sizes, I suppose I could just get the 36" tall one and get some accessories, thanks!

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. I think the montane species are more difficult to keep and I don't recommend them for new keepers. The link below will provide you with some really good information about keeping chameleons. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

 

[RandyE]

Thanks for the help!

Would you say that maintaining the necessary humidity for the mountain species makes them more difficult? Would an automatic mister solve this problem?

I think the Dragon Strand place has many other sizes, I suppose I could just get the 36" tall one and get some accessories, thanks!

It absolutely does. Them requiring a higher humidity level means they require more hydration and dehydrate easily, especially at younger ages. I recently got a Jackson that I had to get from Petco before they killed it (they were housing him in a 10gallon horizontal aquarium with no place to climb...I saw the tank and he couldn't even get 6" up; good thing he was only there for a week) and achieving his humidity levels has been a royal pain. 80% humidity where I'm at (northern NY) only happens if it is going to rain so I've had to work quite hard.

I like to shower with my chams (I also have a Veiled) once a week just to give them a little more moisture in case they didn't drink enough the past week. It is the only time my veiled doesn't hiss and try to bite me so I think it is doing something good for them. You just have to be careful how hot of a shower you take with a montane as it gets very hot very quickly. I actually keep the Jackson on a plant on the far end of the bathroom where my sink is so he's getting the steam but not so much the heat. This can also be achieved with a 30 minutes session from a mister.

As for getting the mister, that can be kind of tricky. You will want to make sure you have ample drainage and start it during the weekend so you can supplement it with misting while you fine tune the schedule before your work week starts and you have to leave him alone (or class week). I'm unemployed right now so I have the opportunity to mist them all day, which I find enjoyable because I like looking at them.

But the big take away is montane chams are generally not as hardy as veiled and are therefore not recommended for beginners.

Veileds and Panthers are typically recommended for beginning chameleon keepers, but if you've kept high humidity reptiles ofother types I honestly don't think it would be an issue. Jacksons are supposed to be the hardiest of the montanes but rudis are also pretty hardy. I don't know if you've seen this but here is an article from one of the sponsors here http://www.lllreptile.com/info/libr...-/husbandry-of-montane-species-of-chameleons/

 

[cham1234]

Thanks so much. I have read that one already, and I've done a fair amount of research. The primary reason I am gravitating towards a Montane species is because they tend to be a bit smaller and that appeals to me.

I live in SE PA so humidity may be something I have to research a lot more. I'm currently reading about glass terrariums (not aquariums) and how they benefit Montane species so that may end up being an option.

I have another question. As I mentioned before, I am coming from the saltwater reef aquaria hobby. Part of Reefkeeping is very expensive and elaborate lighting, which ultimately culminated in me buying a very expensive LED lighting fixture that can simulate natural sunlight in almost all wavelengths in up to 24" of water. This fixture is dimmable and controllable, and also has blue LEDs. I am guessing that this light is going to be too powerful for a cham even on its lowest setting, but figured I would ask anyway...is there any use for this in this hobby? If not I think I will sell my fixture and use the proceeds towards a misting system for my future cham.

 

[Iceman716238]

No, you cannot use that light for the chameleon. You need specific strengths of UVA and UVB light made for reptiles. you have to remember(I was also a sps reef keeper for 14rs ) that water diminishes the amount of UV light that penetrate to the corals, so the lighting for reef tanks would have to be different. metal halides would simply cook the chams as well. i would use the led to give a nice ambient light for the cage, as long as you can also fit a heat dome on top of your cage as well. Me personally, i just bought a reptile light dome and a heat/UV bulb that gets both jobs done(heating and UV at the same time). Most other ppl just get a florescent strip light with a 5.0 uv bulb in it, and a reptile light dome with a basking lamp to give the heat separately. BTW, If you have been to the CT reef shops, that means we have met.... lol

 

[shanerz]

Hey guys how do I make my own post ??

 

[MorganC25]

Hey Shanerz,
At the top of General discussion topics click the new thread button to start a new conversation or "forum" with what ever questions you have or comments. Hope that answers your question.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Personally, I hate screen cages. They don't keep in humidity and the chameleons climb the screen, doing permanent damage to their feet. I have a little wild-caught quad who is having trouble holding on to perches because of all the damage to her toes and feet, which was done when she was housed in a screen cage.

I now have all my chameleons in Dragonstrand breeder cages. They have three solid sides, a screen front and top. I've also housed in Exo-Terra glass, but I find the glass enclosures a bit too heavy. Chris Anderson has a great article on keeping chameleons in glass enclosures:

http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

For lighting, nothing beats Arcadia bulbs. I have a light meter, and even the reliable ZooMed Reptisun bulbs are not very good. The Arcadia bulbs throw a lot of heat, so you need to keep that in mind. Todd of Light Your Reptiles (a site sponsor) is an incredible wealth of information and will help you get the lighting system you need. Most bulbs are extremely weak compared to the sun. Sunlight at higher altitudes is much stronger than in the valleys. Having lived in the tropics for many years, my south Texas sunlight is positively weak and watery by comparison.

The drainage trays under the Dragonstrand cages hold an amazing amount of water. I run a lot of water through my misting system many times a day. Occasionally, I will use a wet vac to drain the water out of the pans, but many of the cages have dry pans at all times because the leaves of the plants take all the water and the pans dry out, especially now that I have the A/C keeping the chameleon room quite cool.

Montane species may not be as forgiving a species as a veiled or a panther, but I do not think they are all that difficult as long as you can get them enough water and keep them cool enough. Supplementing them is a little trickier. Some species I suspect are really, really difficult and a novice should avoid those. I have no knowledge of the species you are referring to, so can't advise you on them.

As far as size is concerned, I don't know too many chameleons that are two feet long. That would mean a chameleon with a body length of about 12" and that's a monster. I don't think the adult male Parsons I saw (the size of a small cat!) was much more than 12" in body length but I could be wrong.

I'm working with Trioceros quadricornis quadricornis and the sub species T. q. gracilior. I've found them to be incredibly forgiving. I'm very new to chameleons, getting my first two (veileds) in November. If you've kept a salt water reef tank, you will be able to keep a montane chameleon.

You can also increase your chance of success by buying a healthy sub-adult captive-bred specimen. Babies are always tricky and montane babies are the trickiest of all. They can dehydrate really, really easily. Avoid a buying a wild caught. They are a challenge.

I would like suggest you have a look at quads. In my experience, they seem to be easy to care for. There has been two shipments of them in the past 6 months after years of none coming into the US. The breeding populations aged out and the larger breeders went on to different species so they became rare. Right now, there are a lot of quad eggs being incubated by very dedicated and serious breeders.

Good luck.

 

[cham1234]

Thanks so much for the info. Do you know of quad breeders who will have available stock in the next few months?

Someone else on here posted that they have hundreds of Panther eggs ready to go and would be selling them for $50 a piece so I'm wondering if that might be a better path to begin just because of their hardiness and the price for a Panther.

I hadn't looked at the breeder cages yet but now I've seen them I think that is clearly the way to go to maintain high humity. DragonStrand seem a little expensive but a full cage setup for $200 doesn't seem totally outrageous...

I don't know if you saw my last post about the LED reef light I have. I'm wondering if a cham would like to bask under something like that for a few hours a week because it is designed to replicate strong natural sunlight vs. just UVB or a cheap bulb. Thoughts? Too powerful? The dimmer allows it to be dialed down a lot.