starting my female's habitat

[Glitch]

So far for the substrate Ive used a layer of gravel with a layer of expandable coconut fiber and a thick layer of Lizard Litter jungle mix, all for the plants and for the Chameleon. The plants i forget at the moment, its been another hectic ass day but i know they are safe for chams. Im just going to start with 3 and see how it goes. the pale on the back left will be for a waterfall i plan on installing and the one front right will be for her egg laying. I will be placing a vine or two across it and possible 1 more plant or two. Im not moving her in just yet.
Im beginning to see why though you guys are so passionate about chameleons. Im really enjoying watching her move around and taking photos.

 

[JaxyGirl]

So far for the substrate Ive used a layer of gravel with a layer of expandable coconut fiber and a thick layer of Lizard Litter jungle mix, all for the plants and for the Chameleon. The plants i forget at the moment, its been another hectic ass day but i know they are safe for chams. Im just going to start with 3 and see how it goes. the pale on the back left will be for a waterfall i plan on installing and the one front right will be for her egg laying. I will be placing a vine or two across it and possible 1 more plant or two. Im not moving her in just yet.
Im beginning to see why though you guys are so passionate about chameleons. Im really enjoying watching her move around and taking photos.

Hi Glitch, You're going the hate this...but you definitely should not use any substrate on the bottom of the cham cage. Chams can eat it and then it causes impaction which can lead to death or a vet visit.

 

[Glitch]

Then why does every thing say that you can use the substrate i used? Im even doing my research -,- I dont want anyone thinking im not doing any research or just grabbing stuff and throwing it in their. Ive really put alot of time and effort trying to get everything right with this...

 

[Bob 1000]

I just started myself and have never read that substrate should be used for Chams.. Won't it just get really soggy and nasty anyway??

 

[Glitch]

Negative, what ive read was that the substrate is made to get soggy but you need to use this type of substrate. It helps with and maintains the moisture in the enclosure. But everything i read contradicts itself about Substrate with chameleons- Use vs Non use (its ok to use or its Not ok to use) Even the bag says its made to be used with chameleons.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Negative, what ive read was that the substrate is made to get soggy but you need to use this type of substrate. It helps with and maintains the moisture in the enclosure. But everything i read contradicts itself about Substrate with chameleons- Use vs Non use (its ok to use or its Not ok to use) Even the bag says its made to be used with chameleons.

I know that things can get confusing especially when your setting up you first cham enclosure. You'll find that there is a lot of miss information when it comes to taking care of chams. Many people don't know what a cham needs to survive including pet shops. You'll find that on this forum are some of the most experienced chameleon keepers and breeders around. All will tell you that substrate will harm your cham if it is ingested. Check out this thread on the forum with a really nicely started enclosure https://www.chameleonforums.com/first-post-rate-my-enclosure-47399/ Notice there isn't any substrate and that the plants are still in the pots. The plants help maintain humidity. Also when you mist your cham and have a dripper this will help with the humidity in your enclosure. But, we're here to help you and we have your cham's best interest and health in mind.

 

[Glitch]

Ok, so then would using this be ok atleast for her nesting box as long as i get the rocks out?

 

[andy27012]

I have had the same experience, with such a plethora of info out there it is bound to be contradictory. I have found that by following the advice of the members of this forum I have managed to keep a super healthy very happy little cham. I must say +1 to losing the substrate, my little guy is over a PVC bottom.

 

[Glitch]

I have had the same experience, with such a plethora of info out there it is bound to be contradictory. I have found that by following the advice of the members of this forum I have managed to keep a super healthy very happy little cham. I must say +1 to losing the substrate, my little guy is over a PVC bottom.

Can i see a pic of your PVC bottom? the bottom of mine is just a clear plastic trey but i dont really like the look of it. After hearing this i might get some small tile pieces and just line it with that or borrow your PVC idea.

its just been a bad past 48 hours -,- so im also venting to myself and taking a step back and pausing for a few.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Ok, so then would using this be ok atleast for her nesting box as long as i get the rocks out?

Your cham is tiny right now. You wont have to worry about her laying eggs until she's about 5-6mos old. She doesn't need a nesting box or substrate in her cage.

 

[VeiledOwner87]

In my personal opinion, substrate CAN be used in certain enclosures with certain species. R Brevicadatus (bearded pygmy chameleon) just as one example, would be a chameleon you need and can use substrate for. C Calyptratus (veiled chameleon) is a species that is known to be a pesky little dirt eater. It is common for C Calyptratus to eat plants, and in some cases, eat a lot of them. Off topic, you have to be even cautious with what type and how much of a plant you are putting in their enclosure. With that being said, you have to be extremely cautious with putting substrate in their cage. When just starting out, I used to be a keeper that was more of aesthetic looks rather than what is right and safe for my chameleon. I was one who wanted to keep substrate and a waterfall in my cage. Both are NO NOs. Regardless of if the substrate gets wet and soggy, it can still not be digested if consumed in great matters, and you will never know how much your chameleon is actually consuming on a weekly basis. Also too, you need to be careful of any harmful bacterias that are growing within the substrate if constantly wet and soggy as you described.

There is no doubt in my mind that you have put a lot of time and effort into the cage, and it sounds like you want to do all that you can to provide the best husbandry, good looking cage you possibly can for her. But safe measures are better than later sorries. I did research too before starting out, not on chameleonforums.com, because I wasn't introduced to it, but many care sheets will approve substrate, and the marketing schemes on reptile package products AREN'T always trustworthy.

Just my opinion man, and I hope it helps. Best of luck. And by the way, your little girl is quite the cutie

-Phil

 

[andy27012]

Here is a link to the post with pictures of my setup. If you look the green bottom is the pvc bottom I was referring to. The best thing I can think to compare it to is the plastic stuff that they make yard signs out of, just more rigid.

 

[Glitch]

I know exactly what that stuff is thats what the bottom is i think made of in the enclosure shes in now. Thats a really good idea for a mist system to.

I do appreciate all the info you give me with my only posts so far Jax and the info you provided Veiled.

For plants then Ive been clipping to the vines and putting a bowl of fresh Cale and collards in every day and keeping them moist. That was one thing recommended by both the vet, some research and one of the better known reptile places in my area (who also unfortunately said substrate is ok so im now questioning that). Im assuming she will just pick up that thats also food.

New course of action-

-Remove Substrate tomorrow when out of work and bag. I can still atleast use it for another project down the line.
-Re-pot plants with small amount of substrate
-Put new plate down as a bottom instead of substrate
- +/- the waterfall idea for now thats cosmetic maybe just leave a spot open.
-Find my digital thermometer

 

[JaxyGirl]

You definitely don't want to put in a waterfall because it will just collect bacteria and could become harmful if she drank it.

What you want to get is a water dripper. Your cham wont drink from a bowl of water. You can purchase a dripper or you can make your own. If you search dripper on here I'm sure you'll find some do it your self drippers.

Also, you might consider turning your enclosure one one end so that it is taller. That way you can put in taller plants and give her more room to climb up higher which chams like to do.

Just another thought. What kind of lighting do you have for your setup?

 

[Glitch]

this one, none yet because shes not in it yet. Im getting the Reptisun 5.0 UVB for this one and a Zoo Med UVA spot lamp probably 65 watt. Not doing any heat rocks or heat vines because i know of their tendency to over heat them and cause burnings. A thought did go through my mind about possibly turning it on its side.

 

[VeiledOwner87]

for future references, you want to keep your baby,juvenile, and even adult female with a basking spot of 80-82 degrees.

babies & juveniles 75-77 degrees
subadults 77-80 degrees
adult female 80-82 degrees
adult male 82-87 degrees
*NOTE: this is what works for me and what I feel comfortable with

with that being said, i do not recommend the wattage you state in your post.

Hope this helps

 

[Ace]

for future references, you want to keep your baby,juvenile, and even adult female with a basking spot of 80-82 degrees.

babies & juveniles 75-77 degrees
subadults 77-80 degrees
adult female 80-82 degrees
adult male 82-87 degrees
*NOTE: this is what works for me and what I feel comfortable with

with that being said, i do not recommend the wattage you state in your post.

Hope this helps

you can use the same bulb, but might try to keep a distance from the bulb from cage to decrease the heat...

 

[Glitch]

i have a 65 w on the one shes in now and it stays between mid 70s 85 ambient during the day but thats with the light directly on the enclosure

 

[VeiledOwner87]

85 is still hot for her

 

[JaxyGirl]

Actually, save yourself some money and just use a regular household incandescent bulb for your basking light. That's what most of us use. I use a 60wat for my adult male Jackson's.