Straight to Ambilobe? Thoughts?

[TRohr]

Hey guys, hope everyone is doing well.

I recently ordered an 24" Reptisun 10.0, 50W basking spot bulb, 40W night time basking bulb, and hoods. Possibly ordering an basic MistKing kit in the near future along with a DIY drip system. I'm working on converting a plastic and aluminum server rack that's about 2' X 3' X 6' (LWH) into an enclosure full of Pothos, fake vines/ leaves until the Pothos take over, driftwood, and thin sticks. I have a warm, very quiet, well ventilated, sunlit room that I plan on placing the enclosure in. I have plenty of gut loaded crickets, but I am still looking for suitable vitamins/ suplements for a cham.

My question:

I have never really raised reptiles before- I've only ever raised amphibians- and though I have read quite a bit I still worry that I might mess something up. I'm terribly impatient and tend to rush things.... Would I be best off raising an veiled chameleon to begin with or do you guys think I would be fine jumping straight to ambilobe? I plan on ordering from LLLReptile because they're incredibly close to my state. I should have plenty of time to watch the little guy while I'm getting him acclimated and figuring out the enclosure's environment too. Are ambilobe pretty hardy? Do their conditions need to be exact or is it okay to vary a bit? I'm pretty sure all my lights would keep him warm and healthy enough. I'm getting ready to go into a fairly long summer where I live too. Just how often do these guys get sick? It sounds like they get sick fairly often from all of the forum posts that I've been reading.... I don't think I would ever take it to the vet if I had to....

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions greatly appreciated~

 

[ChamOh]

"I don't think I would ever take it to the vet if I had to...."

stick with frogs..

 

[pssh]

They don't usually get sick if they come from good breeders, have no parasites, and are taken care of properly. My first one never got sick, but did have a prolapse towards the end of his life. Panthers and veileds are pretty much the 'starter' chameleons. Just keep the humidity a little higher for panthers. I'll include my check list for veileds and panthers. It will need to go to the get once or twice a year for check ups and fecals. If you can't/won't take It to the vet, don't get one.

Here is my basic checklist for a baby veiled or panther:

-a screen cage of appropriate size (baby:16x16x30, adult female 18x18x36, adult male 24x24x48) you can also buy the adult sized cage and just section off the bottom so it is smaller
-live plants that are non toxic and have covered organic fertilizer free soil
-a normal incandescent house bulb of appropriate wattage
-a dome to put the house bulb in
-a linear reptisun 5.0 and appropriate hood
-a digital thermometer or temp gun to check temperature
-a digital hygrometer to check humidity (you can buy a 2 in 1 thermometer/hygrometer)
-three supplements: calcium with d3, calcium without d3, and a multivitamin that contains no vit A (make sure all are phos free)
-a pump style spray bottle to spray chameleon
-a dripper of some sort
-drainage for the water so that the cage does not flood
-many horizontal, vertical, and diagonal branches/vines/perches make sure there are many at different levels under the basking branch so he can move around under them to get a certain temp, the closest one to the bulb (6-8 inches under it) should have the maximum temperature a baby veiled can handle (80-83 degrees)

All of this can be bought on lllreptile.com but it would be cheaper to buy the uvb hood, normal incandescent house bulb and dome, plants, and digital thermometer from home depot or lowes (unless you are getting a temp gun, then tempgun.com) Veiled chameleons can handle temps as low as 50 degrees (at night) so there is no need to use a night light, though I would try to keep it around 60 for a baby. If you do need extra heat, use a space heater or ceramic bulb.

 

[TRohr]

"I don't think I would ever take it to the vet if I had to...."

stick with frogs..

There are some pretty legitimate reptile vets where I live, and their services are reasonably priced- if the cham were in serious enough condition he would go to the vet. Are you telling me that all chams eventually, at some point in their lives, get so sick that they need to go to the vet? If your not going to post something beneficial don't post at all.

 

[TRohr]

It will need to go to the get once or twice a year for check ups and fecals. If you can't/won't take It to the vet, don't get one.

Why do they need to go in for a checkup/ fecals so often?

 

[pssh]

Just to get checked over and so make sure the food source isn't giving them parasites. Plus it establishes a good relationship with your vet. Some vets will offer free or discounted fecals after the first one, so it may not actually be that much after the initial visit.

 

[TRohr]

Just to get checked over and so make sure the food source isn't giving them parasites. Plus it establishes a good relationship with your vet. Some vets will offer free or discounted fecals after the first one, so it may not actually be that much after the initial visit.

I have more than enough time and money for simple tests but surgery, xrays, crazy meds.... I'm definitely going to spend a few weeks making sure that conditions are just right, but regardless I might stick with a veiled. I just figure that since I'm forking out serious cash as it is I might as well go all the way and get a cham that I truly want.

 

[pssh]

What I'd do is save up. Every month I just put like ten-thirty dollars in a find for emergencies (pet wise anyways.) then I will always have some for just in case.

Edit: just thought I'd say, lll doesn't sex the panthers so if you get a female, she might be more likely to need (expensive emergency) vet visits since she will lay eggs.

I bought my little guy (Hyperion) from chameleons101.com but any of the site sponsors are good, but I would make sure to get a male if you don't want to deal with eggs.

 

[TRohr]

What I'd do is save up. Every month I just put like ten-thirty dollars in a find for emergencies (pet wise anyways.) then I will always have some for just in case.

That's a good idea- thanks for the help. Hopefully I'll have some pictures of my progress for everyone soon~

 

[ChamOh]

There are some pretty legitimate reptile vets where I live, and their services are reasonably priced- if the cham were in serious enough condition he would go to the vet. Are you telling me that all chams eventually, at some point in their lives, get so sick that they need to go to the vet? If your not going to post something beneficial don't post at all.

if you're not willing to see a vet (which is what your first post said--after which you changed your mind..), a chameleon isn't a good choice.

I'm sure you'd be a fine chameleon owner if you understand that after the initial cost of set up, the animal, etc etc there will still be expenses. my recent vet visit +fecal exam was 80 bucks. and if it does have parasites or some illness, add in cost of meds and in the case of parasites, numerous fecals until parasites are gone .

 

[TRohr]

Sorry, my writing tends to be to the point and coarse. I just wanted a bit more information than a jab. I had no idea that chameleons were so prone to parasitism. Other than keeping their environment extremely clean and buying feeder insects from a fairly reliable source- in my case PetCo (hope they're reliable....)- how do you prevent them from getting parasites at all?

 

[nick barta]

Parasites come inside of wild caught chameleons. LLL sells wild caught, but if you are looking at baby panthers, those will be Captive Born most probably, so you don't need to worry about parasites.

All chameleons can get parasites from contact with other animals with parasites, but parasites from feeders from commercial insect growers is not something to worry about IMHO.

I would suggest you look at breeders to be sure that you are actually getting an Ambanja, Ambilobe, or what ever you want. Once the babies are sold to a wholesaler, you don't really know what you are getting. You could be buying a cross rather than a pure locale of Panther.

Shipping is guaranteed by all of the breeders on the Forum, I believe, so i would look at Chameleons Northwest, and Chameleon Company, just to mention 2 of many qualified breeders.

Nick

 

[TRohr]

Parasites come inside of wild caught chameleons. LLL sells wild caught....

Nick

This is good information to know.... I would have never have known they sold wild caught. Your positive they do?

At this point I'm definitely going with an veiled, definitely going to put a bit more research into breeders (probably going to go with FLChams), definitely going to get an enclosure put together and test the hell out of it for several weeks....

Should I expect my chameleon to get sick? Are they really that sensitive? Do some people just have no luck compared to others? I've been reading quite a bit about parasites, and all the other ailments that can affect chameleons and it's starting to scare me a bit....

http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/chameleons.asp

This is something that I really want to do so I'm going to keep pressing on, but still.... Praying I'm not getting myself in too deep.

 

[reptoman]

This is good information to know.... I would have never have known they sold wild caught. Your positive they do?

At this point I'm definitely going with an veiled, definitely going to put a bit more research into breeders (probably going to go with FLChams), definitely going to get an enclosure put together and test the hell out of it for several weeks....

Should I expect my chameleon to get sick? Are they really that sensitive? Do some people just have no luck compared to others? I've been reading quite a bit about parasites, and all the other ailments that can affect chameleons and it's starting to scare me a bit....

http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/chameleons.asp

This is something that I really want to do so I'm going to keep pressing on, but still.... Praying I'm not getting myself in too deep.

I had the same concerns when I purchased my first panther almost 2 years ago. I have gone to the vet once for an eye issue that did not really get resolved with anything more than better hydration and moving one of my lights to a better position. Fecals are a good idea and dont cost more than $20 bucks at most places. If you do your research, and it looks as though you are, I would not let that scare you away.
You should check the classifieds on here and can usually get a pretty good deal and almost always have good pics of the sire and dam from where the babies came. That is important if you care about what your cham will be like as it grows (both in looks and general health) If you stick around in the forums for a little while you will see who the more experienced sellers are. They will usually be the ones that get many posts about the incredible babies that were delivered.

 

[JCDenton]

I would (in fact I did) get the panther if that's what you want. The additional cost of the panther over the veiled is very small compared to the time and money you're going to spend as fixed costs of having either chameleon. If you were depending on the veiled having a higher margin of error you probably shouldn't get a chameleon anyway.

I would get the cham from some place other than LLL. Part of the fun of getting it is looking high and low to find the sire you like best. You can look at site sponsors here, kingsnake classifieds, faunaclassifieds, to get an idea of who's out there to buy from. Don't get set on one in particular, email several places to check age, availability, and for pics. At least half the places I contacted either did not respond, were selling them too young, or were out of males on the sire I wanted. For the most part the cheapest reputable places are selling 3 month old babies for around $150-$170. I paid $125 for mine on sale but I wasn't picking based on price, I went with who was most helpful and also had a sire I liked. You could spend all the way up to $300 but I did not see any benefit to spending that much because you can find a stunning sire even from the cheap chams. I used that extra savings for a mist king instead.

 

[jpm995]

If you buy from a reputable source there's little chance of parasites. Even wc chams are usually treated by the vendor with panacur before they ship [ask them before you buy]. I to would at least check out the site vendors here. Just look at the beautiful sires and you'll be hooked. I think panthers and vieled's are about the same hardiness wise, it's just that the panthers are so much more money many feel safer going for the cheaper one as a first buy. You may never have to take your cham to a vet it's whole life but remember these are delicate animals. If they get an eye or tongue infection it can keep them from feeding. One common problem is mbd from lack of calcium and sunlight. Proper lighting, feeding and suppliments are crucial for their health. The proper set up is by far the biggest single factor in their health. If done right you'll probably never need a trip to the vet.

 

[laurie]

You commented that LLL is close to your state, where do you live? There are additional things to think about if you are in someplace like southern Arizona where the temp get really hot, you have to be able to keep the chameleon from getting too hot. My outside temps can go to 100 so I know those challenges.

If you get a chameleon and decide it is not for you, most likely you can sell it on this forum. You will NOT make a profit or even get your money back. Chameleons who are well cared for daily, will most likely need a lot of vet care, but I feel you should never take on anything you don't have the money, time and desire to care for. I fell that goes for pets, children, homes and all other things. That is just how I live my life. I sure didn't know what I was doing when I had my daughter - what a money pit! But that was along time ago, I hope I am wiser now but wouldn't always bet on it.

We all all just trying to help you and any chameleon you might purchase, just take all this information knowing that is why it is offered.

 

[ChamOh]

The proper set up is by far the biggest single factor in their health. If done right you'll probably never need a trip to the vet.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with this sentiment. Even if your chameleon is CB from a reputable dealer, there is still a real chance it has parasites. Most vets will not do the first fecal without having ever seen the animal, so you are typically forced to bring the animal in for an office visit just to get the fecal (it's illegal to prescribe anything without seeing the animal). After the first office visit, they will usually do fecals without bringing the animal in. They may even require yearly checkups.

 

[TRohr]

You commented that LLL is close to your state, where do you live...?

I live up in Idaho- It generally only ever gets up to 100 one or two days out of the year. I'm more worried about my AC kicking on and fluctuating the chams enclosure temp.s too much. I don't think the room would ever cool off quick enough or long enough to give him respiratory problems though.... I go to school full time 9 months out of the year so I'll be able to keep an eye on the cham, temps, and humidity most of the day soon~

Still thinking of going with an veiled chameleon even if they aren't any hardier than the panthers. I love their coloration just as much, and I can put the money that I would have spent on a panther toward an initial vet visit. Fecal tests once or twice a year won't be a problem- I'll just drive a little less, and eat a little less. I could set aside a nice wad of cash for when/ if something serious ever happens easily enough too.

We all all just trying to help you and any chameleon you might purchase, just take all this information knowing that is why it is offered.

Help is what I came for ;]