Mike Fisher
Established Member
Only if you over water. It's not for everybody, but that's basically how my enclosures are set up.
Substrate Nightmare!!!
- Thread starter ZiggyStardust
- Start date
Only if you over water. It's not for everybody, but that's basically how my enclosures are set up.
croastbeast
New Member
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Why have a drain if it doesn't ever reach the drain? And if it does reach the drain, there's 1/4" of standing water. Can you explain? I'm really confused.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
No, you got it. The plant roots take up the excess water, it is not really standing water, it is under the plants. It provides a water table for the plants, the only time the drain comes into play is if it gets above the 1/4" level, then it drains out.
If you continually over water, yes, that last 1/4" will be swamped, but the animals never come into contact with it anyway.
It also doesn't clog like the bottom drains that I tried. It is not exactly a new idea, I've been using these enclosures since the 90's.
croastbeast
New Member
Hmmmm. Well, I see your point, but also don't necessarily agree. I understand it's physically separated. However standing water in organics are just potentially dangerous IMO. But, as you said, this has been in play for years. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it. I se no benefit in 1/4" of standing water. Just me. To each their own.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
I originally manufactured these enclosures with a bottom drain. Many customers had problems with clogged drains and had routing issues with the drain being in the middle of the bottom. Once I relocated it to the back, it solved all my customer service issues.
I've never had a customer complain over a 1/4" of water that is under 6" of planting mix.
I replant mine about once every year. Never noticed a problem. No root rot, or swampy smell. Most of what I do doesn't make sense to most people on here, but it works for me. I don't take it personally.
I've never had a customer complain over a 1/4" of water that is under 6" of planting mix.
I replant mine about once every year. Never noticed a problem. No root rot, or swampy smell. Most of what I do doesn't make sense to most people on here, but it works for me. I don't take it personally.
LookinRound
New Member
I don't have it for the chameleons, though if you go to http://www.dendroboard.com/ for the dart frogs there are a lot of fully planted setups like that. If you have an issue with standing water too much, you could always flush into the drain and let it come back out for occasional servicing. As Mike has done, it gives a small water table for the plants basically and an out in the case that it really does get over watered. The goal, and what I'm assuming Mike has done, is created a setup that is pretty well balanced, but has some things in play for that time it get slightly 'off'.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
That's a really good way of explaining it. If you over water it can't flood, and if you under water for awhile, the 1/4" of reserve at the bottom keeps the plants from getting too dry. You have a buffer zone and a fail safe. Seems to work pretty well IMO.
But the main reason I did it that way....Because the drain bulkhead can only be placed so close to the bottom and still seal. That means the holes got drilled at the minimum distance for it to work. No over analyzing, just old fashioned engineering.
LookinRound
New Member
But the main reason I did it that way....Because the drain bulkhead can only be placed so close to the bottom and still seal. That means the holes got drilled at the minimum distance for it to work. No over analyzing, just old fashioned engineering.
Oh definitely. The only way to get it lower is to do it on the bottom. That gets in the way of shelving though, unless you make that custom for it as well. So you go the route you did, and it still works.
The thing I learned from the poison dart frogs is creating a full system which seems to be the opposite goal hear. They would have the ground as you have done it and a lot of plants. From there they'd have fans built in for circulation. The'd introduce 2-5 different species of isopods and springtails. These would break down the dead leaves and waste. Everything took care of itself. If done right, all you had to do was introduce food for the frogs. Everything here seems to be done like an isolation tank which is interesting.
As I get involved with the chameleons I shall be starting more basic as people suggest here, but hope to be able to setup more as you have done, and do more complete systems.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
That's all I do besides keeping plants trimmed and propagating/transplanting as needed. And killing the occasional plant eating slug. If you do fans, make sure they are very low flow. Chams hate wind.
LookinRound
New Member
No cleaning feces for you? That's excellent if so. For the fans, most that were being used when I was looking were something like a CPU fan. Gives a little bit of movement, which kept the glass clean, and could be hid in some PVC piping so it is camouflaged in. Wasn't really planning on doing a fan for them at this point, but if I did, that'd be all it is, so very weak
JosieJobo
Member
air flow & mushrooms
It has been really hot in the uk lately and to try and cool things down a bit I used a aquarium air flow pump, poked some hols inthe tube and just put in on the floor of my tank very little cool air comes hrom the holes but hopfully get things a little coler and fresher.
I have a living vivarium but I still clean /tidy it about once of twise a week. Clean out pood and dead leaves and mushrooms!!! I have loads atm??? How can I safely get ride of them my panther somtimes eats a bit of earth or moss so don't want to use anthing thatll halm him xx
It has been really hot in the uk lately and to try and cool things down a bit I used a aquarium air flow pump, poked some hols inthe tube and just put in on the floor of my tank very little cool air comes hrom the holes but hopfully get things a little coler and fresher.
I have a living vivarium but I still clean /tidy it about once of twise a week. Clean out pood and dead leaves and mushrooms!!! I have loads atm??? How can I safely get ride of them my panther somtimes eats a bit of earth or moss so don't want to use anthing thatll halm him xx
Psychobunny
Avid Member
That's one reason I will not have a glass cage for my chams.
It's just to much work to keep the humidity and temps right, and drainage is a serious problem.
I have seen some glass terrariums with a hole cut in the bottom glass.
But they were like tanks, with no ventilation.
They are also very heavy, and I need to be able to move cages sometimes.
If you know how to cut glass, you can put your own drain hole.
Maybe just Google "cuttings holes in glass" to get instructions.
If the water has nowhere to go, you will have it evaporating and causing condensation and high
humidity, which can lead to a nasty respitory infection.
It's just to much work to keep the humidity and temps right, and drainage is a serious problem.
I have seen some glass terrariums with a hole cut in the bottom glass.
But they were like tanks, with no ventilation.
They are also very heavy, and I need to be able to move cages sometimes.
If you know how to cut glass, you can put your own drain hole.
Maybe just Google "cuttings holes in glass" to get instructions.
If the water has nowhere to go, you will have it evaporating and causing condensation and high
humidity, which can lead to a nasty respitory infection.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
Only if droppings are on the plants or climbing areas and looks unsightly. The last time I actually "cleaned" an enclosure was more than 20 years ago before I started using this system.
And no, my enclosures don't stink. They smell like peat and really good composted garden soil. I freshen up the top layer a couple times a year, and usually totally replant them once a year because otherwise the plants become too dense.
I think back to the days before I started doing this and remember the bad smell, massive work cleaning cages, unsightly cages with all the plant pots in them, and realize that is what most keepers in the US are still dealing with.
And they tell me I'm the one doing it wrong.
