Substrate or no?

[Chamycon2016]

Hello. I was just recently talking to a petco employee about Chams and what to do to keep up the humidity. I have a fogger and a reptibreeze cage that is all mesh. I need the humidity to go up just a little bit. He said substrate (moss, bark, carpeting, dirt) were a good way to go. I also would like to have substrate because the paper towel that I put in my cage on the bottom looks like crap. Would I be able to use substrate? What are the pros and cons?

 

[Virgil1972]

Cons are that your cham could eat it and die. Pros are it could help the humidity but it would have to be wet which would grow mold and bacteria. You could put some live plants in your cage to raise the humidity or buy a humidifier or both.

 

[Craigwyatt]

No substrate. And I'm not a fan of foggers either. It's is possible for them to inhale that fine mist and get water in there lungs. Misters are totally fine though. If you want to naturally increase the humidity put live plants inside the cage. That should do the trick.

 

[Remkon]

With substrate you're still gonna need drainage or you'll have a very muddy swimmingpool in no time.

I have nothing on the floor and just whipe it clean with paper towels and removed dead leaves and bugs...

And foggers are ok if you keep some space between the fogger and the enclosure ... Make sure your cham doesn't use it as a bong

 

[Chamycon2016]

This is my setup with the fogger. I'm not sure how to do it any other way...

 

[Virgil1972]

I prefer a humidifier from walmart over a fogger. I just keep it in the same room as the cage to raise the humidity of the whole room.

 

[brownie64]

The way you have your fogger set up is fine as long as he can get out of it if need be. Substreight does go a long way towards bringing up the humidity. However it also brings a whole other set issues and must be done right, or it will definitely make things worse. It needs the proper drainage, bio balls. a moss earth mixture that can air out easily, and put in a clean up crew, and you'll need to fix it so your cham can't eat dirt. If you can't meet all these requirements, and maintain it I strongly suggest you don't do it.

 

[Chamycon2016]

The way you have your fogger set up is fine as long as he can get out of it if need be. Substreight does go a long way towards bringing up the humidity. However it also brings a whole other set issues and must be done right, or it will definitely make things worse. It needs the proper drainage, bio balls. a moss earth mixture that can air out easily, and put in a clean up crew, and you'll need to fix it so your cham can't eat dirt. If you can't meet all these requirements, and maintain it I strongly suggest you don't do it.

Well I have it to where if he needs to get out of it he just walks to the bottom of the cage. I just bought a mister off of Amazon yesterday so that part's covered. If I get real plants at say Home Depot, how do you get the pesticides off? Do I have to fertilize the plants at all?

 

[Remkon]

You can just shower the plants for a few minutes to get any pesticides off...

As fertilizer you can get the cone fertilizers that you just push into the dirt and cover up.
I haven't used em yet since most plants do ok.

 

[Virgil1972]

If you are getting a veiled you will not want to use any fertilizer because they may munch on the plants. You could use your feeder poop as manure though.

 

[Chamycon2016]

If you are getting a veiled you will not want to use any fertilizer because they may munch on the plants. You could use your feeder poop as manure though.

My setup. Too crowded possibly or good? I had trouble find tall enough plants that were also small. I have one pothos and the big umbrella plant.

 

[Virgil1972]

My setup. Too crowded possibly or good? I had trouble find tall enough plants that were also small. I have one pothos and the big umbrella plant.

I would say its good. The plants will also fill out the cage pretty fast.

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

Hello. I was just recently talking to a petco employee about Chams and what to do to keep up the humidity. I have a fogger and a reptibreeze cage that is all mesh. I need the humidity to go up just a little bit. He said substrate (moss, bark, carpeting, dirt) were a good way to go. I also would like to have substrate because the paper towel that I put in my cage on the bottom looks like crap. Would I be able to use substrate? What are the pros and cons?

Is it a female or male or have you gotten it yet?

 

[Chamycon2016]

Is it a female or male or have you gotten it yet?

He's a male. Got Spurs on the back of his feet.

 

[Virgil1972]

He's a male. Got Spurs on the back of his feet.

Good males are much easier.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

I am not so sure why everyone is against substrate when apparently moist towels are fine? Moist towels are a sponge for bacterial growth whereas a properly executed substrate will have a microbiome that will break down poop within a few days. The issue is in the formula....any old 'soil' will simply not do. You must use something along the lines of the ABG Mix (Atlanta Botanical Gardens) which has proper ratios of necessary ingredients. Think of substrate as a 'recipe'. You also want 'probiotics' for your soil, such as tropical woodlice and springtails. The most important thing is the top layer - put a decent layer of leaves (magnolia, oak, catappa (indian almond)).....the leaves will act as a barrier between your chameleon's tongue and the soil. Everyone is afraid of impaction but it's such a simple thing to avoid. Chameleons live in jungles which have.......substrate...covered in leaf litter...

If you are still afraid of substrate, just add more plants. Your cage now looks extremely basic. Try adding some trellis along the back with pothos climbing up, add 2-3 plants in one pot. (each plant does not require its own individual pot). Try fixing a piece of bamboo 1/3 from the top, to hang a hanging basket on, again this can have 2-3 types of plants growing out of it.

As plants respirate, they will increase and keep a stable humidity.

 

[Chamycon2016]

I am not so sure why everyone is against substrate when apparently moist towels are fine? Moist towels are a sponge for bacterial growth whereas a properly executed substrate will have a microbiome that will break down poop within a few days. The issue is in the formula....any old 'soil' will simply not do. You must use something along the lines of the ABG Mix (Atlanta Botanical Gardens) which has proper ratios of necessary ingredients. Think of substrate as a 'recipe'. You also want 'probiotics' for your soil, such as tropical woodlice and springtails. The most important thing is the top layer - put a decent layer of leaves (magnolia, oak, catappa (indian almond)).....the leaves will act as a barrier between your chameleon's tongue and the soil. Everyone is afraid of impaction but it's such a simple thing to avoid. Chameleons live in jungles which have.......substrate...covered in leaf litter...

If you are still afraid of substrate, just add more plants. Your cage now looks extremely basic. Try adding some trellis along the back with pothos climbing up, add 2-3 plants in one pot. (each plant does not require its own individual pot). Try fixing a piece of bamboo 1/3 from the top, to hang a hanging basket on, again this can have 2-3 types of plants growing out of it.

As plants respirate, they will increase and keep a stable humidity.

Thanks for the advice friend

 

[Carlton]

If you are getting a veiled you will not want to use any fertilizer because they may munch on the plants. You could use your feeder poop as manure though.

The plants will eventually need SOME feeding as they use up the nutrients in their soil. What you don't want is to overfeed them or use high concentration granulated fertilizers scattered on the soil surface that the cham might pick up and swallow. A diluted basic plant food won't hurt your veiled if it happens to chew on the plant.

 

[Virgil1972]

The plants will eventually need SOME feeding as they use up the nutrients in their soil. What you don't want is to overfeed them or use high concentration granulated fertilizers scattered on the soil surface that the cham might pick up and swallow. A diluted basic plant food won't hurt your veiled if it happens to chew on the plant.

I have been using my feeders poop and it is working so far. I have not been using it to long but im hopeful that it keeps going good.

 

[Carlton]

The only concern I'd have is that you might be creating a big population of parasites in your plant soil.