Sudden decline in health...How to keep him comfortable?

[szpond]

Hello all, I am sad to inform you that my adult male Jackson's chameleon is not doing so well. There have been no changes in his husbandry and no changes in behavior up until last night, so this is coming to me as a bit of a shock.

Anyway, here is what has happened:

Last night (~10pm after lights out) I noticed he was half-hanging onto his usual sleeping branch. I didn't want to disturb his slumber and throw him into a panic, so I did regular checks on him afterwards. My last check before bed (~2am) I saw that he had actually fallen a ways down, probably about a foot and a half, and caught him self with his tail and back legs. Sound asleep. I started to worry and placed many towels on the bottom of the 5' screen enclosure I made for him. If he did fall, it wouldn't be terrible. I broke the golden rule and I helped him back onto a branch. He barely woke up but he grabbed the branch and I went to sleep.

I woke up at 8am (lights-on are at 7:30am) and found him still in the same place, only half hanging on, still asleep.

I took him into the bathroom for a shower to see how he would react to it. He was overall weak, almost as if his limbs were not agreeing with his brain. Somewhat stumbling over things. Half of the time awake, half of the time asleep. Did not drink, was in the shower for 20 minutes. Did not clean eyes, but did a lot of blinking/squinting. After the shower I gave him a little bit of Repti-boost while he was awake.

Pictured below is the set-up I have him in now, and his normal set-up. He is looking normal, but acting weird. Eyes do not indicate that he is dehydrated. The set-up on the left I believe is an old 18x18x24(?) exo-terra with front and top ventilation. He will wake up for minutes at a time, but mostly he has been sleeping in it. I have been keeping the humidity up, monitoring temperatures digitally to make sure it does not become a sauna, and I check on him every 15-20 minutes.

The bottom of the enclosure has a heavy towel in case he falls over and a live pothos.

What more can I do for him to be comfortable?

I hate to be the one giving excuses, especially for my boy, but today has been a bad day. My normal veterinarian hospital is closed due to the show-in we have going on right now, and I am afraid I cannot get my car out of the driveway anyway.

Max has been with me since early April of 2011, and when I purchased him, he was just about an adult. From what I gather, he could be any age between 3-4 years old. Is this how an old chameleon passes away?

 

[szpond]

I apologize for how long this thread is. He's really important to me, I'm sad to see him acting this way.

My husbandry is 100% based off of the care resources that Chameleon Forums provide. I assume someone will ask for my husbandry, but there really are no differences.

Here is how Max is different - shortly after I purchased him in 2011, Max went through surgery to remove a growth on the base of his tail. He bounced back very quickly and it healed excellently!

 

[MelissaB]

I am so sorry that you're going through this. My Jackson is sick, too. Unfortunately after seeming to get a little better, he's taken a turn for the worse. I'm trying to keep him comfortable by putting him in a safe spot, on the floor of his house, and placing washcloths underneath him, in case he falls. I hope your guy bounces back.

 

[szpond]

So sorry to hear that, Melissa. I hope your boy starts to feel better as well.

We could both benefit from this thread. I hope another user will chime in soon, maybe there are some aspects we could change to make them more comfortable.

 

[MelissaB]

Thank you, Szpond. I bent his flexible vine, so that he could hold on to it, and halfway perch on it. And not just lay on the floor. I'm not sure what else to do to make him more comfortable.

 

[Decadancin]

I'm sorry to read that he isn't doing better today. Unfortunately, without knowing what is causing the issue I don't have any real advice. As for keeping him comfortable, I think that keeping humidity and temps at their ideal range will likely be what he wants. I'm not sure if feeding will help or not, or even if he will eat right now. Keeping him in my prayers!

 

[szpond]

I'm sorry to read that he isn't doing better today. Unfortunately, without knowing what is causing the issue I don't have any real advice. As for keeping him comfortable, I think that keeping humidity and temps at their ideal range will likely be what he wants. I'm not sure if feeding will help or not, or even if he will eat right now. Keeping him in my prayers!

I will do that, thank you for your post with your kind words. So far not interested in crickets. Will watch, them, though.

 

[Bush baby]

Hey guys, i wrote a blog post pertaining to Jacksons that i will post below. I currently have a Jackson's that sarted acting 'weird' and bought him back using the below method..i have also done so in the past with several other Jackson's- who are notoriously sensitive to hyper-supplementation. Either take him to the vet, or give my technique a shot.

Hoping for the best.

I’d like to share a method that I have personally used a few times with great success, when Vitamin overdose supplementation was the suspected culprit. This is just my personal experience, and I have no medical data supporting the physiology of such method, just some basic know how and logic from the many years I’ve kept Chameleons. I have just recently pulled my Jackson's through what i feared was a Vitamin OD scenario quite successfully, so this is my 5th time turning a bad situation around using the description below.

I call it the FLUSH method. You need to flush your chameleons system of the excess vitamins and/or minerals.

This is done quite simply – if your Chameleon is still drinking the only thing they should consume for 7 DAYS is WATER .

After 7 days you can resume the normal feeding schedule …except DO NOT DUST YOUR FEEDERS FOR AN ADDITIONAL 7 DAYS. Once the total 14 days are up, resume the correct dusting schedule - which varies depending on your Chameleon's specie and age.

During the time when you are not dusting it is even more important to properly gut-load your feeders. There have been studies that suggest that the food broken down in the digestive system of the prey item make a better delivery system of crucial nutrients to your chameleon, than having to get those nutrients by way of dusting. Why this is, I can only speculate that the prey items digestive system begins processing said vitamins, making it simpler and easier on the body of the Chameleon once it eats that prey item.

Do not worry too much about the 7-day flushing period. A healthy Chameleon can go many days without eating solid food. Think about it; being feed daily is rather un-natural for Chameleons to begin with. In the wild they go days without 'finding' a meal; when you factor that in with the fact that certain prey items are only available for limited periods of the year, due to the prey items own life cycle, Chameleons are accustomed to times when food will be quite scarce. This is nature’s way of not only preventing them from gorging on food but also from overdosing on vitamins, minerals, etc.

Additionally, if you are continually giving your chameleon any food when overdosing is suspected, you are essentially adding to the toxicity level of said substances, even if you don’t dust the food item with anything at all. So for example, if Vitamin A overdosing is the issue, giving an undusted Dubia roach - which may only have a minute trace of vitamin A in its system - is adding that minuscule of Vitamin A into your Chameleons system, which may already have said vitamin present in it’s body at an already dangerous level. This is why NO Food is given during the first 7 days; only water.


Again, this is a method I have used with great success and should only be tried on Chameleons that are willingly drinking and are relatively alert. I’ve had several Jackson’s in the past that I suspected were getting too much Vitamin A, and successfully brought them back from the ‘brink’ using this method. By no means am I suggesting not going to a vet, but if your husbandry is good yet you suspect you may have been a little too generous with the supplementation, this method is a solid first step before a costly vet visit.

 

[szpond]

I very much appreciate your post and the information you have provided, but I am fairly certain the issue is not over-supplementation.

I use D3 on the 5th or 6th of every month - he did not eat either of these days and hasn't gotten Calc w/D3 since Dec 6th.

I use multivitamin a week after using D3, so he has not had it since mid December.

I dust with calcium w/o D3 2 times a week (a light dust, they are not ghostly). The last time he had a dust was the 3rd I believe.

I will take your information for future purposes however, thank you so much!

 

[Mijah139]

although i only deal with my veiled, it sounds like his behavior is due to a a vitamin/mineral overdose or deficiency. What feeders are you using and how are you gutloading?

 

[Decadancin]

Just from what I know of the history, I don't think over-supplementing is the issue. I'm not sure what type of benefit the flush method would bring unless there was a build up of toxins in the system. I would try to keep your cham well-hydrated anyway, but I'd say a vet visit with some blood work is likely the only thing that will give you some solid answers (hopefully). I hope you are able to get to them soon.

 

[GrimsbyPatchwork]

Apart from all the above ...I think that is one good looking Jax !

Hope that he recovers as he has been quite some time with you....if the weather permits, I would recommend giving him some natural sunlight.

Although it might not solve the problem, it will still be beneficial to his system.

 

[Miss Lily]

I am so sad to read this post. I know just how special and 'different' Jacksons are and I would be devastated if anything happened with my precious boy Monty. I am thinking of you and Max. xx I have lost 3 Veileds in the past, and as much as I loved them, the pain that losing them caused me was pretty awful, I know that it will be many times worse when my Monty gets sick, so I really sympathise with how you are feeling about sweet Max. Please keep us posted on his progress. Tiff xx

 

[houseofchameleons]

I would take him to the vet and get some lab done on him. We had one that developed a weak grip and it turned out his kidneys were failing and a week before he was the picture of health

 

[MelissaB]

HOC, was the vet able to treat your cham with the kidney problem? What did they do?

 

[szpond]

although i only deal with my veiled, it sounds like his behavior is due to a a vitamin/mineral overdose or deficiency. What feeders are you using and how are you gutloading?

Because it has been rather frozen lately, I cannot get any silkworms or dubias through the mail. I am able to purchase hornworms, crickets, and superworms by my home. He has been refusing hornworms for the past few months. Has always loved crickets.

So in the winter, I vary my gutload as much as possible and I feed him the usual staple of crickets and treat superworms. Occasionally a butterworm if the reptile place has them in, which is rare.

I use Sandrachameleon's dry gutload and the wet gutload is usually just alternating chameleon-safe fruits. I also allow cricket gel, obviously. Right now I have an apple/butternut squash cube in there. I use the blend-and-freeze method. Last month I was using more greens than fruits. I try to mix it up as often as I can. But I did get the fruit/vegetable list off of chameleonforums, so I am sure that they are safe fruits and vegetables.

 

[szpond]

Apart from all the above ...I think that is one good looking Jax !

Hope that he recovers as he has been quite some time with you....if the weather permits, I would recommend giving him some natural sunlight.

Although it might not solve the problem, it will still be beneficial to his system.

He's always been a "pretty boy"

It is below freezing at the moment, the county is asking that everyone stay off the roads. All schools and campuses are closed, many businesses are closing as well. Unfortunately outside is not an option.

 

[szpond]

I am so sad to read this post. I know just how special and 'different' Jacksons are and I would be devastated if anything happened with my precious boy Monty. I am thinking of you and Max. xx I have lost 3 Veileds in the past, and as much as I loved them, the pain that losing them caused me was pretty awful, I know that it will be many times worse when my Monty gets sick, so I really sympathise with how you are feeling about sweet Max. Please keep us posted on his progress. Tiff xx

Thank you so much for your kind words. I have seen Monty on the forums and he is quite the guy! I have lost a veiled in the past as well, it will sting just as much and more.

I would take him to the vet and get some lab done on him. We had one that developed a weak grip and it turned out his kidneys were failing and a week before he was the picture of health

I have contacted 3 of the surrounding vets. Like I said before, the county has asked that people stay off the roads unless it is an emergency. Which, this is.

The first vet I have called is the same that performed the surgery on Max years ago. The reptile specialist is not in until tomorrow. I called the second vet, which Max has seen before for a check-up, and the chameleon-experienced reptile vet is not in until tomorrow.

There is an emergency walk-in vet about 25 miles away, this is my last resort. The receptionist was unsure that the reptile vet had any experience with chameleons. They are a 24 hour place.

I'm afraid I'm backed into a corner. Max has been declining in health, still, and is unable to pick his body up today. He will wake up for certain periods of time, but that is all. I am still trying my best to keep him comfortable.

What should I do? Wait for a chameleon-experienced vet for tomorrow, or take him to the emergency place? I fear the only thing they will be able to do for him is to euthanize him. Is that the only option for him? I fear it is.

What were the vets able to do about the kidney failure? Max has been on Baytril in the past, which I know can cause kidney damage.

 

[szpond]

We are on our way to a vet I've never been to before. The doctor claims to have treated multiple chameleons. Will keep you guys posted.

 

[MelissaB]

Good luck, Szpond, I hope they can help him.