Sunken Eyes, Stiff Tail, Weak Muscles

[stickyvibes]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female Panther chameleon, in my care for about 1 year 4 months. She is about 1.5 years old.
• Handling - Once or twice a week, whenever she wants to come out of her enclosure.
• Feeding - I usually switch her feed between crickets and dubia roaches, and silkworms about 15% of the time but they run out quickly (she loves them!). I feed her every 2 days, about 6 crickets or 4-5 roaches, usually in the afternoon because that's when my schedule works out that I'm home and awake. I gutload feeders with carrots or turnip greens.
• Supplements - Repcal brand supplements. I dust them always with calcium (no D3), calcium w/ D3 once every week and a half, multivitamins once a month.
• Watering - I usually see her drinking but I haven't seen her drink for a couple of weeks. She has a mistking system that goes off for 1 min 40 sec every 2 hours.
• Fecal Description - I haven't seen her feces lately but I will report on it when I get home and take a look.
• History - I bought her from Backwater Reptiles (DO NOT BUY FROM THEM THEY DON'T TREAT THEIR REPTILES PROPERLY). She has always had a tongue issue and has had to go right up to her food, within an inch. Over the summer I would put her on a tree on my balcony and she fell off (I'm second floor)...she was found 2 weeks later in a nearby tree. Since then it looks like there is a shoulder blade that pokes out a bit from her back. It doesn't seem to bother her and she can move around quickly.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen cage, ExoTerra XL. Shower curtains on three sides of cage to maintain humidity.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - I don't measure it because there is a humidifer right next to her enclosure.
• Plants - Pothos, dracaena, and ficus benjamina.
• Placement - Her cage sits about 5 feet off the floor, the top of the cage is about 8 feet up.
• Location - upstate NY.

Current Problem - I found her on the floor of her cage today. She is very lethargic and has weak muscles. She will not eat or drink. Her eyes are VERY sunken into her head. Her eyes are closed most of the time. She will open them to look at me briefly and then close them again. She is taking long, deep breaths. Can't hold onto a branch very well. Today when I placed her on her dracaena under her misting nozzle, I came back after a few minutes and her mouth was open wide but she wasn't flaring up her neck thing.

I think she's dehydrated but she has had plenty of opportunity to drink...maybe her tongue problem has finally gotten worse and she can't even lick up water droplets.

The below picture was taken about a week ago. She has been hanging out on her vine and just hanging her back legs off. I thought she was being lazy but now I slap myself for not seeing the signs.

 

[Michelle Maxwell]

Ya she needs water. If she fell that far you need a vet just to make sure she's ok and had no broken bones
has she laid eggs you may need a laying ben.

Did you leave her alone outside? How did she get the opportunity to fall that far ?

 

[stickyvibes]

Ya she needs water. If she fell that far you need a vet just to make sure she's ok and had no broken bones
has she laid eggs you may need a laying ben.

Did you leave her alone outside? How did she get the opportunity to fall that far ?

Yes she was left alone outside. She was climbing on a balcony tree of mine but I guess she climbed onto the railing from there and fell. That was about 9 months ago though. I know better now.

I tried putting her in a laying bin earlier today but she just wanted to get out so I don't think it's eggs. She has laid 2 clutches of eggs in her life so far. I don't feel any eggs in her belly area at the moment but I'm not sure. Even if she did need to lay I doubt she has the strength to dig. There is a laying bin nearby her though.

 

[Michelle Maxwell]

What do you feed her and dust her food with

 

[stickyvibes]

• Feeding - I usually switch her feed between crickets and dubia roaches, and silkworms about 15% of the time but they run out quickly (she loves them!). I feed her every 2 days, about 6 crickets or 4-5 roaches, usually in the afternoon because that's when my schedule works out that I'm home and awake. I gutload feeders with carrots or turnip greens.
• Supplements - Repcal brand supplements. I dust them always with calcium (no D3), calcium w/ D3 once every week and a half, multivitamins once a month.

 

[Michelle Maxwell]

I just read that to lol time for bed to
@Andee can you give advice here

 

[kinyonga]

Is it possible she fell again even a short distance?
I think she is showing gravid colors but doesn't look very fat if she has eggs.
Because she's taking deep breaths I don't think she's going to last much longer. Sorry to tell you that.
She should have gone to a vet when she fell off the balcony IMHO.

 

[Andee]

I would say she has some sort of spinal injury or something that has gotten worse likely from the fall especially if she has fallen recently. It could have formed scar tissues and started to pinch specific nerves making it impossible for her to move her back legs correctly. I would agree she likely should have gone to the vet but that's in the past and there is nothing we can do now sadly. She does look extremely dehydrated... she looks like she is showing gravid colors but may be not very far along in the developing stage. I don't know if there's much you can do in her case without a vet visit. It may come to the point where euthanasia is the only thing that can be done. She is at the point where I think she could survive a vet visit but I don't know what they will once you are there. I think fluids would be very important if you are going... but you should definitely get an xray. It will tell you not only if she is carrying eggs, but also anything wrong with her skeletal structure. Good luck you two. I wish there was more home care you could do and more advice I could give... but honestly this a vet case through and through.

 

[xrowdac]

ouch! I hear VET.. emotional & financial stress is inevitable. with chameleons.. hope all goes well @stickyvibes

 

[stickyvibes]

I should have put it in the first post but I am DEFINITELY taking her to a vet first thing in the morning -- I only realized this was a problem yesterday evening (i.e. I've only known this is a problem for 9 hours or so).

I just wanted to get any feedback and see if I could illuminate anything in the meantime.

Here are some more pictures.

The original picture was a week ago. This is today. Starting today she started sleeping a lot and doesn't want to wake up for long. She squirms sometimes but that's it right now. She may be at the end and I understand. But I'm going to do everything I can for her.

NOTE: Shortly before I took this picture she was totally light pink/cream (her normal sleeping color). She was even a little bloated. After holding her for a while she started squirming and started to suck in and get skinny and she changed to black in several places. Her eyes just started looking like this yesterday. I AM TAKING HER TO A VET IN A FEW HOURS. Just hoping she can hang in a little longer. She's still alive and her breathing is now shallow.

She hasn't been eating much for the last couple days but I thought it was because she needed to lay eggs soon. This morning when she was on the floor obviously I then saw this is a serious problem and it's not (just) about needing to lay.

 

[Glen the Jackson's]

I should have put it in the first post but I am DEFINITELY taking her to a vet first thing in the morning -- I only realized this was a problem yesterday evening (i.e. I've only known this is a problem for 9 hours or so).

I just wanted to get any feedback and see if I could illuminate anything in the meantime.

Here are some more pictures.

The original picture was a week ago. This is today. Starting today she started sleeping a lot and doesn't want to wake up for long. She squirms sometimes but that's it right now. She may be at the end and I understand. But I'm going to do everything I can for her.

NOTE: Shortly before I took this picture she was totally light pink/cream (her normal sleeping color). She was even a little bloated. After holding her for a while she started squirming and started to suck in and get skinny and she changed to black in several places. Her eyes just started looking like this yesterday. I AM TAKING HER TO A VET IN A FEW HOURS. Just hoping she can hang in a little longer. She's still alive and her breathing is now shallow.

She hasn't been eating much for the last couple days but I thought it was because she needed to lay eggs soon. This morning when she was on the floor obviously I then saw this is a serious problem and it's not (just) about needing to lay.

Let us know how the vet went. always sad to see pics like that.

 

[xrowdac]

wtF!!! those are gravely sunken eyes...... thats..it.. end of the road....hate to break it...this is it..bro...RIP

 

[Andee]

Well if she makes it after the vet appointment you may want to look into making a catch net. Otherwise you may want to give her a shower, with you holding her of course... I don't know how awake she is now? But sometimes if you bring them into a brightly lit bathroom and start a warm enough shower for her (usually it's too cold for us people) but it would be worth it. When I have a chameleon I have to hold I usually just strip and sit in the tub with the shower pointed at the wall for them. That's honestly the only thing I could offer at the moment... Except... I dunno if it will help with reptiles... but I doubt it would hurt. If you have Karo syrup in the house, pancake syrup, or preferable a type of honey, you can rub it on her gums and mucous membranes and it can absorb that way slowly into her bloodstream. I have never done it with reptiles so this is a guess, but it is not likely to do any harm especially not in her situation. If it works it could give her a boost of energy to keep her going and some simple sugars for her body to work off of. I have done this for frugovirous geckos but usually just feed it to them. It is great for young hatchlings and gravid mothers. I also do it regularly for my older birds and mammals who just need extra energy or anyone sick who needs some help and calories.

 

[Glen the Jackson's]

Well if she makes it after the vet appointment you may want to look into making a catch net. Otherwise you may want to give her a shower, with you holding her of course... I don't know how awake she is now? But sometimes if you bring them into a brightly lit bathroom and start a warm enough shower for her (usually it's too cold for us people) but it would be worth it. When I have a chameleon I have to hold I usually just strip and sit in the tub with the shower pointed at the wall for them. That's honestly the only thing I could offer at the moment... Except... I dunno if it will help with reptiles... but I doubt it would hurt. If you have Karo syrup in the house, pancake syrup, or preferable a type of honey, you can rub it on her gums and mucous membranes and it can absorb that way slowly into her bloodstream. I have never done it with reptiles so this is a guess, but it is not likely to do any harm especially not in her situation. If it works it could give her a boost of energy to keep her going and some simple sugars for her body to work off of. I have done this for frugovirous geckos but usually just feed it to them. It is great for young hatchlings and gravid mothers. I also do it regularly for my older birds and mammals who just need extra energy or anyone sick who needs some help and calories.

***great info here!!!^^^

 

[Andee]

***great info here!!!^^^

Ha XD I have been using honey for various things in animal care since I started. But once I got a diabetic cat I realized the ability honey and some of the higher sugar content stuff had to transfer their sugars through mucous membranes. It has been extremely helpful sometimes. I have had moments where I have had my diabetic going into hypoglycemic shock and was able to stop in enough that he was going down into normal range about 45 minutes later after I got him into my vets <3 gotta love some of the stuff I learn.... Anyway... I am getting really tired and have to sleep soon, though I will be answering your thread and probably a couple others if people answer that are emergency situations as long as I can. Good luck so much hun >.<

 

[joshuadh2310]

Oh wow I'm very sorry to hear this I would also love to hear what the vet has to say and if she has made it this far.

 

[stickyvibes]

I know her eyes look really bad but 2 days ago they looked fine. Like I said this only became evident yesterday. Anyway I'll let everyone know how things go at the vet this morning. Thanks a lot everyone for the feedback. I'm sorry for her that I didn't catch this sooner.

 

[xrowdac]

keep us posted man....lets hope for the better..

 

[Miss Lily]

That last picture looks like she's dieing, if she hasn't gone already. I'm so sorry

 

[jajeanpierre]

I know her eyes look really bad but 2 days ago they looked fine. Like I said this only became evident yesterday. Anyway I'll let everyone know how things go at the vet this morning. Thanks a lot everyone for the feedback. I'm sorry for her that I didn't catch this sooner.

You need to start learning what a healthy chameleon looks like because she didn't get that way overnight. I'm sorry for your loss. She's been dying for a long time; you just didn't see it.