Super Nice Super Rare Ampiskiana

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CleanLineChameleons

CleanLineChameleons

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This guy is one of the most docile animals I have. I no longer have females for him, so I would rather him go to a good home that appreciates him as an awesome pet and a show piece. I have had for for a little over a year and he eats like a horse and wants to come out of his cage ever chance he gets.

Ampiskiana is a locale just south of Sambava and a little more inland. He has some reds when he fires up but he is mostly yellow and with green barring. At rest you can see he is vibrant green with some orange in his face.

I am asking $400 plus shipping. If you have any questions please feel free to PM me or email me.

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He is truly one of a kind.


Thanks,

Chris
 
Tyler...just because you just worked with three locales doesn't me I have to. :) I believe there was a thread a couple days ago talking about how much people mix locales...I strive not to.

-chris
 
CleanLineChameleons said:
Tyler...just because you just worked with three locales doesn't me I have to. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I wanted to have a few more ;) That was before they were all being invented, and new locales were easy to get.

You're right, though.... I never did try to invent a new locale in an attempt to sell a low end Ambilobe for $400 LOL. Friggin Carter....
 
If you believe that to be Ambilobe that tells me why you are now selling torts. I take pride in knowing Madagascar, it's cities, and coloration in its locales. Just because you don't see them in the US doesn't mean that they never make it into the US. It takes people like myself that have studied locales and are on forums around the world gathering information about these animals. Are you telling me that Ambato too is not present in the US. The main thing is they get mixed in with other locales and their offspring lose their purity.

It probably isn't as complicated working with Sulcatas and Red-Foots ;)

Chris
 
There very well may have been a handful of animals that came in called something, but when something is no different than one of the established 8 or 10 or maybe 12 locales that I think have different looks between them, I think it's pointless to keep expanding the list of "locales." If you took all the cities and areas that the Ambilobes come from, it would be broken into several different locales. Same with Tamataves, Maros, Sambavas. Yeah, there's variation city to city, area to area, but I think and have always thought that expanding on particularly the "mainland" locales is just going to blur the lines between them. Nosy Falys are clearly different. Good. Mitsios are clearly different. Good. But to start pinpointing a possible variation between established, "named" locales is a bad habit, particularly when it's presented as some type of a "new locale."

And no, it's not nearly as complicated with redfoots and sulcatas. Less drama too.

Sorry to hijack the thread... Carry on.
 
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We will agree to disagree...show me one other Ambilobe...and we know there are hundreds being bred everyday in the US. Show me one with green U barring that goes orange...with a yellow background and red lips and eyes.

Here is an ampiskiana from a guy in germany:
amp.jpg


And mine:

Ampiskiana-1-1.jpg


Similar to Sambava but not quite.

The closest one I have ever seen has been El Lobo. And you know what ...Ampiskiana is just southwest of Sambava...humm maybe thats why there are similarities in the U bar and the orange.

Tyler I know you have produced your fair share of chameleon...but you give yourself too much credit. You think if you haven't worked with it then it can't exist. You even claimed that Masoala wasn't a locale (just a national park on the peninsula east of Maroantsetra) ohh but wait you questioned me about Maroantsetra. Pull out a map, do research...learn if you still have questions, IM me. But we both know the only east coast chameleon you ever worked with was Sambava...no wonder you don't see the difference.

-chris
 
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But we both know the only east coast chameleon you ever worked with was Sambava...no wonder you don't see the difference.
Click to expand...

That's because I was producing Tamataves and Maros in addition to Sambavas before you were either around or paying attention. I also am sure that I have produced more East coast locale panthers than you have, so don't attempt to discredit me in that way.

I'm not boasting about my ability to determine what is and what isn't a certain locale. I don't care, and it's your animal, call it what you want to. There is always going to be oddball animals out there that don't look like what they're supposed to look like. There will also always be crosses that are mistaken for certain things (not suggesting that this is a cross).

My argument is that we shouldn't be trying to find minor differences in one or two animals and attempting to invent locales, which is exactly what you're doing. Like I said before, a Nosy Faly is different. It looks different, it's from an isolated place, and enough animals were brought in at one time that it was clearly a new locale. Mitsios were the same way.

Ampiskiana is just southwest of Sambava...humm maybe thats why there are similarities in the U bar and the orange
Click to expand...

Based on the animal you just compared yours to, his doesn't even have the U bar that you claim means something.

Pull out a map, do research...learn if you still have questions, IM me
Click to expand...

Looking at a map and picking a city that is on the border between the 2 locales that your panther looks like is not "doing research." It's pretty much the worst way to label something. Based on the PM's I've recieved in the past 2 hours, I think many people agree.
 
Actually many Nosy Faly look like bad Nosy Be panthers. But anyways, the fact of the matter is I didn't throw a dart at a map and call it the city it landed on. All locales were formed from people that collected enough chameleons with a certain look and called it the biggest city around where they were collected. The locales are man made and they are not the exact city where they are found. I did not pick this name, I couldn't imagine where to come up with a Malagasy name.

I love pessimistic people, without you all there would be no one to questions and others would never know.

People like you don't care enough, you are the reason why everything is confused with Ambilobe. I mean Ambilobe now has eaten up Sirama, Picasso, and Diego Suarez, or are they all Ambilobe, who can tell the difference? I have heard of people confusing chameleons that appear Sambava with Ambilobes. Many Ambanjas get confused with Ambilobes. Tyler are you going to be the one everyone asks before knowing for sure what locale they are? Give me a break, for you to tell myself I picked a city is stupid...there are other forums around the world that recognize it, maybe one day when enough are in captive care it will become as well known as the other locales. I am sure every locale was questioned at one point in time by those who have lost the desire to learn. That is why you got out of it, right, you told me you lost your desire. So now why are you going to come in here and throw rocks.

And for you to back yourself up with the facade that you have gotten many PMs supporting you in the last two ours is just LAME.

-chris
 
Chris and Tyler,

Let us all remember what this particular forum is meant for. What seemed to start out as a light poke has turned into a somewhat heated argument. Both of you clearly have a lot of experience in the chameleon hobby and no one would attempt to discredit that. Clearly this is an area of controversy within the hobby whether or not this is in fact a locale or a variation of one. Whether or not Chris is right or Tyler is right should not be decided in this forum but should be up for discussion elsewhere. I have my opinion on the situation as I am sure many others have, but let us not attack one another here. If Chris wants to sell this chameleon for the price that he is deemed is correct let him do so. Either he will find someone that agrees with him on the price and the locale or he will not. Let people study and research on their own and make that decision. Both of you are great to work with and I respect all that you to have done in and for our community but lets retract the claws.
 
Kyle,

Tyler and I are friends, just because we get heated about it doesn't mean we are fighting. I would rather the stuff stay, because it does show both sides fairly well.

Thanks,

Chris
 
Good grief, Chris, I didn't know you were going to get so worked up about this.... Like Kyle says, it was meant as a sarcastic joke, and you've turned up the heat. We've debated this before, just this time it's public. Chris already knows that I always win these kind of arguments, so he's accepted that position already LOL.

So just to clarify, I'd like some answers to these questions:

1. If I were to dust off my old memory cards, and find a photo of something, anything in there from 4-5-6 years ago that looks like the animals you describe, do I get to claim that I was the first in the US to have Ampiskianas? I'll look for one with or without the U bar, whichever you decide it's supposed to have. Not that I would claim that, because I know it'd sound stupid.

2. If I come up with a panther that looks like something you would find between Ambilobe and Ambanja, can I decide a new name for it? It might already exist in Germany. Just because someone in Germany has a panther that is (for example) blue body with red stripes doesn't mean that a panther I have with those characteristics is suddenly the same thing.

you are the reason why everything is confused with Ambilobe.
Click to expand...
This is my fault? LOL.... Uuuh ok. Not sure how, but I guess I did something to screw all that up. Come on Chris, you lose lots of credibility with statements like that, because now everyone knows that you don't know what you're talking about.

I did lose my desire for chams, I lost my enthusiasm. There's several other reasons (divorce, custody of my kid, etc), but that was a big part of it, besides being in the most opposite climate possible for them. Doesn't mean I want to see the current, established, defined (to a degree) locales get thrown into the gutter as they get diluted with stuff like this. Here's an example of what will happen, and already does to an extent:

New member post:
"I just picked up this panther chameleon at a pet store. Can someone tell me what locale it is?"

Other new member (with no clue, as there seems to be a lot of lately):
"It looks a lot like an Ampiskiana."
Click to expand...
That right there is all it would take to dilute a current bloodline. The moment that chameleon bred and produced to anything else, it would be impure, and therefore dilute future bloodlines when it was sold as pure or not.

This is my last post on the subject, Kyle is right; not the place for a debate. If someone wants it moved and my opinion is asked for, I'll be more than happy to continue there.
 
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I wasn't suggesting that you two were necessarily on the verge of throwing punches just that this was not the place to have the debate. I too believe that this is good to show both sides of the situation as it is something that should be discussed in the hobby. I just don't know if the classifieds is the place to have the debate. Sorry to chime in but I felt that we should get back to the business of doing business on this forum and leave the "locale debate" to continue elsewhere. I am not suggesting the content be removed.
 
Was this animal imported as a Ampiskiana or is that just what was guessed he was?
http://chameleonsvl.6.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1918

"Ampiskiana
A locality from the mainland of northwest Madagascar near the islands of Nosy Mitsio and Nosy Ankarea. Specimens from this locale tend to look like a cross between males from Ambilobe and Nosy Mitsio. Display coloration tends to be a yellow base coloration with green bars and red eye turrets. Red barring in the gular and ventral areas are also known."

That would put it closer to Ambilobe than Sambava.
 
From what I have seen it is more on the eastern coast...but yes between sambava and ambilobe. I am looking for the travel map I have stored somewhere.

And Tyler

When I said "you" in that comment, I was referring to people like you. People that don't care that much and throw Ambato with Ambanja, and Masoala with Maroantsetra, and Diego Suarez with Red Bar Ambilobes, and Sirama with Blue Bar Ambilobes. That kind of stuff.

Chris
 
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