Sweet and sour story of the gutloading

[Brodybreaux25]

IMHO it is a combination of several factors
1. Surprize (the orey is shocked and need some time to consolidate and react and it looses time)
2. Speed (the retracting happens slowly than orojectio. But is rather quick, so before the lrey can react, it is crushed)
3. Mechanical demolition (once in mouth, the brey is crushed and lioses the capabikity to sting)
4. Hardness (the areas aroun mouth are hard so even if they want ti sting, they merely can, itnis full of hard keratinous scales)
5. Size (usually rhe soze if the lrey is much smaller than the mouth lengts and itnis overpowered easily)
6. Experience (itnis obvious that an animal will develop tricks and texhniques how to avoid a bire from the most or one of the most frequent prey items)

Wouldn’t that be true of all prey?

I should have worded my question better. A better way to put it is do they adjust their technique based on potentially dangerous prey?

 

[PabloTheCham]

Yikes! Sorry bud, I didn’t mean to come across as rude. My apologies. Let me rephrase. You asked us whether you should or shouldn’t, but seemed to be hesitant. Since several of us indicated that chameleons do in fact eat bees and wasps, and since you still seemed to hold some reservations, I recommended what I, myself, would do; namely, to seek out additional info to make me feel more confident in a answer either way. ‘Merely’ was not meant pejoratively, but as indicative of the other avenues of research possible. That being said, the only one to blame for the confusion is me, and for my poor choice in diction, I apologize.

what exactly makes me a "bud"

 

[PabloTheCham]

i jsve done hundreds of fecal samples of wild Yemen chameleons, they are full of bees and wasps.
I jave no evidence of any single sting in my 30years practice of breeding them in thousands and I fed with bees and wesps. The only case ai jave seen in years was an unfortunate case when a captive young Calumma brevicorne packed a carpenter bee of very big size (exceeding bead length), it was stung into the head and died.
But tjisbwas due to inadequate size.
They do it fir millions of years. You will bot find in literatire an evidence of absence of potential problem, as thisnis a nonsense. Same as you will metely find a report on the risks of breathing, running the Krebs-cycle and defecating.

ok that is convincing. I will feed my cham bees and wasps.

 

[Kaizen]

what exactly makes me a "bud"

Sorry @PabloTheCham. My bad.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

what exactly makes me a "bud"

Chill, “dude.”

 

[Ares05]

what exactly makes me a "bud"

Slow down, Chris was only trying to help!

 

[Kaizen]

Don’t worry about it guys. This isn’t the first time my choice of language has rubbed someone the wrong way. It’s something I need to work on. Thank you for your support, but please don’t let a thread turn sour on my behalf.

 

[Redman]

I hear that. My sense of humor has done the same, yet I just can't resist sometimes.

 

[jamest0o0]

Don’t worry about it guys. This isn’t the first time my choice of language has rubbed someone the wrong way. It’s something I need to work on. Thank you for your support, but please don’t let a thread turn sour on my behalf.

Never!

Nah you're good man

 

[Tinytort]

So, he just wants to make sure his cham is going to be safe if he chooses to feed it wasps and bees. This should resonate with everyone on this forum. Other than the video he hasnt gotten any proof or real reassurance that his cham will be safe. You can say all day long you have done fecal samples, show videos, etc but workout showing him what he needs which is proof his cham will be safe he will continue to hold reservations. The video only shows a cham eating bees. It doesn't show if there are later effects etc. So, provide the evidence.

 

[kinyonga]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d136/1a6d68c98d9b120e54eb59647dc16c910fd0.pdf

An interesting study

Good article...gotta read it again. Some of the names in it have been involved in some chameleon studies too.

 

[jamest0o0]

So, he just wants to make sure his cham is going to be safe if he chooses to feed it wasps and bees. This should resonate with everyone on this forum. Other than the video he hasnt gotten any proof or real reassurance that his cham will be safe. You can say all day long you have done fecal samples, show videos, etc but workout showing him what he needs which is proof his cham will be safe he will continue to hold reservations. The video only shows a cham eating bees. It doesn't show if there are later effects etc. So, provide the evidence.

Idt anyone is arguing, just stating that based on experience it seems safe. If someone is uncomfortable, I'd have no problem with them skipping on the stinging insects. I've seen my chameleon eat dozens of bees among others while outside. I feel comfortable letting my $1000 parsons eat them, not bragging, I am not rich, and could not currently afford another one ATM lol. The only thing I go out of my way to prevent are lightning bugs.

 

[cyberlocc]

The only thing I go out of my way to prevent are lightning bugs.

WYM, you don't want a Glo Cham?

 

[Tinytort]

Idt anyone is arguing, just stating that based on experience it seems safe. If someone is uncomfortable, I'd have no problem with them skipping on the stinging insects. I've seen my chameleon eat dozens of bees among others while outside. I feel comfortable letting my $1000 parsons eat them, not bragging, I am not rich, and could not currently afford another one ATM lol. The only thing I go out of my way to prevent are lightning bugs.

Agreed, no one is arguing, but the op responses indicate confusion and that his questions Aren't being answered in a manner that is helpful to him. Everyone is throwing in experiences and evolution and all he wants to know is facts on whether or not his cham is at risk for any negative effects In the future. Like for instance Does the venom sac in both have any effects On the cham now or later?

 

[jamest0o0]

Agreed, no one is arguing, but the op responses indicate confusion and that his questions Aren't being answered in a manner that is helpful to him. Everyone is throwing in experiences and evolution and all he wants to know is facts on whether or not his cham is at risk for any negative effects In the future. Like for instance Does the venom sac in both have any effects On the cham now or later?

Fair enough! The answer is probably that there is no solid answer. There has probably been no/little scientific studies on this(just like many things involving chameleons). Venom isn't harmful when digested from what I understand.

 

[PetNcs]

Wouldn’t that be true of all prey?

I should have worded my question better. A better way to put it is do they adjust their technique based on potentially dangerous prey?

I do not think so
They use the best for all
There is no reason to differentiate

they only modify thesir strategy in case of snails eg: , they do not shoot them but pick with jaws

 

[Bigsky]

I have watched bearded dragons eat honey bees. The dragon's toung strikes the bee's thorax. The bee is drawn crossways into the mouth, so the bee's head is outside of the mouth on one side, and the end of the abdomen protrudes from the other side. The dragon crushes the bee, but does not take it completely into the mouth for a few moments. Of course, the stinger is located at the end of the bee's abdomen. Maybe chameleons show the same behavior. This capture, crushing, and holding of prey could also function to reject distasteful prey.

 

[PetNcs]

ok that is convincing. I will feed my cham bees and wasps.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

My Nosy be does the same with every feeder, holds it a couple mins sometimes.

I can’t prove it but I’ve got to believe they recognize some prey items as potentially dangerous on some level. Both Roux and Momma will hit a Dubia or cricket anywhere but if you put a mantis in front of them there going for a headshot every time, without fail.

 

[PabloTheCham]

Chill, “dude.”

What exactly makes me a "dude"