T./C. ellioti - Female?

[Ferrah88]

Sometimes Midori does not look as she seems. Marimo was, from the day I got him at 2 and a half months, obviously male. Midori on the other hand, I am not sure if she's really female. Sometimes, when her tail is curled, she seems to be male. With tails straight, female!

Darned elliotis, they're so hard to tell! I wish it was as "easy" as it is with most panthers

Here's a picture for your enjoyment:

Some more can be found here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/just-got-back-hamm-reptile-expo-126562/index2.html#post1111660

Thank you for your input!

 

[Ferrah88]

Anyone? If the picture isn't good enough, let me know. I thought it was fairly good though

 

[Ferrah88]

No one?

 

[Trace]

Ok, I'll bite. Actually I've been wanting to reply to this and a few of your other threads for days now, but this site sometimes keeps me very busy. Sorry.

It's been a while since I had baby ellioti but I'd likely say Midori is a female. It is hard to tell with young bitaeniatus chameleons but the tail base on males is ever so slightly thicker and if you have a bunch it's fairly easy to compare and give a good guesstimate as to the sexes.

I did take a look at one of your other recent photo threads and have we determined whether Marimo is actually a male? His tail base is cleverly hidden behind a stick in the shots but it doesn't look large outside of that. Maybe that is what is causing the confusion with Midori.

 

[Ferrah88]

Yes we have decided that Marimo is male (I can clearly see his man-part-bundle), but here is one of my topics with the best pictures of him when he was young: https://www.chameleonforums.com/marimo-ellioti-98921/

I suppose looking back, I can really notice the difference. Marimo was REALLY bulgy, and Midori is well.. not as bulgy? The part that was causing my confusion is nearer her bum, because that protrudes a bit. Where her man-parts would be if she were male would bulge more. In her case, there is that little indent, which is much more slight than a female panther's would be, but it's still there. I can see it now! She also almost always has her tail curled up, which makes the tail base look a lot thicker as well, which didn't help!

Comparing the 3 month pictures of Marimo to those of Midori, what do you think?

 

[Trace]

Yeah Marimo has a man-part-bundle (That’s such a great term!) for sure! He must have been shy about exposing it in those most recent photos.

Yeah after looking at his older photos and comparing tail bases, I’d say Midori is of the fairer sex.

Have fun with them!
Cheers

 

[Ferrah88]

Alright, good to have another opinion

So far I am happy with their interactions together (they're living in the same viv). They have branches next to one another to sleep on and the "worst" thing that happened was Midori once using Marimo's tail as a vine. He looked at her, kinda glaringly and puffed up his throat. She didn't seem to notice and kept moving forward. That caused Marimo to start vibrating up and down, it was really odd! As soon as he did that though, she backed off.

He also seems fairly protective of her. The other day I had Ryuu out, in front of their viv, I thought nothing of it at first. I always take them out, forgetting that the others can seem him. I heard a little "plonk" on the glass and their was Marimo, trying to bite or otherwise murder the larger chameleon. I have NEVER seen him do that before. Ever since Midori is in there, he's been a bit more hostile towards the other chams! I find it kinda cute actually

 

[Trace]

While I don’t really recommend chameleons living together (depends on the situation, species and keeper) but I do believe some of them can and the ellioti and other bitaeniatus would be part of that select group. What I noticed with mine is once the females are gravid they do get quite testy when shown or living with the male and I had to separate them at that point. Just watch for that down the road when she matures.

And don't forget pix of both!

 

[Ferrah88]

Yep, I understand that ellioti's can live together, else I wouldn't have considered it (Ryuu and Yuki won't ever live together). I just have to be sure to keep an eye on them both and get a new, larger vivarium at some point! I think 60x60x120 cm would be too big for them though... so I think I will settle for 60x60x90 or so... that should give them plenty of room so they won't be in one another's faces all the time. I'll also keep the current viv on standby, should they need to be split up!

I'll post some more pictures on the weekend if I get a chance to! I have been super busy with things I have to get done for work and tend to get home when it's almost lights out. Maybe I can get some good pictures of all 4 chams

Thanks though for the reassurance with Midori being female.. I was worried she might be a he which could cause problems if they are to live together...