T. Ellioti wild caughts what to expect?

[Lowenz Trioceros]

So, my introduction thread explains my situation, but summary: Two wildcaught female Ellioti were shipped to me gravid. (Not happy, but is what it is at this point.) Between them, 25 babies within a couple weeks of arrival. Lost one to URI at 1 week and 1 to unknown at 2 weeks but that one had acted slow/off from birth.

Needless to say, I have no history on the mothers health, supplementation schedule was probably nonexistent and shipping had to be stressful. Both seem in pretty good body condition, and their diet/supplements in my home are as described on Chameleon Academy moving forward except I'm alternating D3 cal and a multivitamin once weekly for the first two months because of the yucky care before they arrived.

Given all of that, what is everyone's experience with survival rates/problems with babies of gravid shipped, wild caught female Elliots? I'm holding my breath here, trying to follow what I found on Chameleon Academy and leaning into my knowledge from other herp babies but I have always personally cared for mothers and made sure they were 100% healthy before they were bred. I have never experienced an unhealthy (or potentially unhealthy) female being allowed to breed. I'm concerned that I may start seeing losses due to the mothers health and stress levels during incubation (? would it still be incubation with a live bearere??) Any experience of when these losses start to happen and what is key to limit it? They're about 3 weeks on the 14 out of 16 that are currently OK and a week and a half ish on the set of 9.

 

[Beman]

@javadi may be able to help you...

 

[SteveH]

IMO it would be hard answering your questions when dealing with wild caught. The process of going from wild to captive can/does takes a toll on them the will definitely affect their young. Just incase you haven't seen the Academy's care guide for elliots ...
https://chameleonacademy.com/trioceros-ellioti-care/

 

[Lowenz Trioceros]

IMO it would be hard answering your questions when dealing with wild caught. The process of going from wild to captive can/does takes a toll on them the will definitely affect their young. Just incase you haven't seen the Academy's care guide for elliots ...
https://chameleonacademy.com/trioceros-ellioti-care/

Oh yeah, I was all over CA during my research. Thank you for pointing me there, though. It has been an excellent resource - and the reason I had a fully planted bathtub two hours after I found them on my lunch break. I knew about the potential for surprise babies due to stored sperm (and had a wishlist started in case 3-4 months after arrival that had happened) just zero concept that any supplier would ship a super gravid female unasked. And I mean, even with zero chameleon experience, even I could tell she was gravid.

 

[SteveH]

Oh yeah, I was all over CA during my research. Thank you for pointing me there, though. It has been an excellent resource - and the reason I had a fully planted bathtub two hours after I found them on my lunch break. I knew about the potential for surprise babies due to stored sperm (and had a wishlist started in case 3-4 months after arrival that had happened) just zero concept that any supplier would ship a super gravid female unasked. And I mean, even with zero chameleon experience, even I could tell she was gravid.

Normally wild caught are recommended for experienced keepers and breeders for the fact that you never really know what their condition will be upon arrival. With some TLC I wish you luck. Don't hesitate asking questions also

 

[Lowenz Trioceros]

Normally wild caught are recommended for experienced keepers and breeders for the fact that you never really know what their condition will be upon arrival. With some TLC I wish you luck. Don't hesitate asking questions also

Understood. Is what it is, and I'm just determined to do the best within my capabilities with where I find myself. No worries about asking questions. I am sure I will be full of them.

 

[javadi]

Hello!

Firstly, you might find the below interesting. I compared offspring weights of t. ellioti born to wild caught mothers, to offspring weights of mothers that were captive bred or kept for at least 5 months in captivity, and found that offspring born to wild caught ellioti females are smaller on average.

So, you are at a bit of a disadvantage with raising them because they are likely smaller than they would be if the females were healthier or captive bred. However, they can be raised normally and you have a good chance of them surviving if cared for diligently. If they make it past the first month most will make it to the three month mark, and then most will make it to adulthood. Most die offs for unhealthy ellioti babies are very early on, in other words. I've had good success raising babies of wc elliot's chameleons, but don't be surprised if you see a few losses like you're reporting.

I can tell where you bought them based on the ridiculous packing job they came in, with that weird lint packaging. Their care was horrible before you got them based on my experiences with that company. I think your decision to increase the multivitamin supplementation is reasonable, but I would probably just do it for the first month-likely don't need to for the second month. Wc females, if in horrible shape, will die soon after birth in some cases. If they are still around a couple weeks afterwards, their outlook is better and they might stick around.

Hope this helps!

 

[salty dog]

Wild caughts are alot of work…..…and they need privacy

 

[Lowenz Trioceros]

Wild caughts are alot of work…..…and they need privacy

Just to ensure I am not missing something a lot work in what way? (There are a lot of references to wild caught chams being "work", but not a lot of detail regarding what that entails.) My experience with other WC herps and avians is that they're less "work" but that may be because my definition of work is different than others. Animals that want to interact with people are more "work" to my mind than an animal that wants people to disappear. (Or in the case of some of the parrots, wants people to die... on fire... slowly.)

 

[Ronald7232]

Hello!

Firstly, you might find the below interesting. I compared offspring weights of t. ellioti born to wild caught mothers, to offspring weights of mothers that were captive bred or kept for at least 5 months in captivity, and found that offspring born to wild caught ellioti females are smaller on average.

View attachment 333069

So, you are at a bit of a disadvantage with raising them because they are likely smaller than they would be if the females were healthier or captive bred. However, they can be raised normally and you have a good chance of them surviving if cared for diligently. If they make it past the first month most will make it to the three month mark, and then most will make it to adulthood. Most die offs for unhealthy ellioti babies are very early on, in other words. I've had good success raising babies of wc elliot's chameleons, but don't be surprised if you see a few losses like you're reporting.

I can tell where you bought them based on the ridiculous packing job they came in, with that weird lint packaging. Their care was horrible before you got them based on my experiences with that company. I think your decision to increase the multivitamin supplementation is reasonable, but I would probably just do it for the first month-likely don't need to for the second month. Wc females, if in horrible shape, will die soon after birth in some cases. If they are still around a couple weeks afterwards, their outlook is better and they might stick around.

Hope this helps!

UG i think...

 

[javadi]

UG i think...

Yes, I just didn't want to reference their company name