Targeting issue...still

Ares05 said:
I didn't see many responses on this thought. It seems possible to me, unless it has been ruled out my some other factor that I missed? ( if so, sorry!) I own reptiles (of different species, but still) that after some level of visual impairment, acted normal in almost every way, but always shot high or to the side slightly. Just a thought
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I didn’t respond, but was thinking along the same lines. We assume all animals have perfect vision, but most suffer the same maladies as us. However, then my train of thought kept going...wouldn’t they have learned to compensate for poor visual acuity, what if it is a neurological problem with interpreting the visual data, what if there is scar tissue in just the right place on the tongue to prevent accurate shooting, what if there is a neuromuscular problem with the tongue, etc etc etc...my thought train just kept going with no stops at any stations. :unsure::ROFLMAO:
 
MissSkittles said:
I didn’t respond, but was thinking along the same lines. We assume all animals have perfect vision, but most suffer the same maladies as us. However, then my train of thought kept going...wouldn’t they have learned to compensate for poor visual acuity, what if it is a neurological problem with interpreting the visual data, what if there is scar tissue in just the right place on the tongue to prevent accurate shooting, what if there is a neuromuscular problem with the tongue, etc etc etc...my thought train just kept going with no stops at any stations. :unsure::ROFLMAO:
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What if the clear feeder cup is trowing them off?
 
MissSkittles said:
I didn’t respond, but was thinking along the same lines. We assume all animals have perfect vision, but most suffer the same maladies as us. However, then my train of thought kept going...wouldn’t they have learned to compensate for poor visual acuity, what if it is a neurological problem with interpreting the visual data, what if there is scar tissue in just the right place on the tongue to prevent accurate shooting, what if there is a neuromuscular problem with the tongue, etc etc etc...my thought train just kept going with no stops at any stations. :unsure::ROFLMAO:
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I am going to cut supplements except calcium and see if things change. So many possibilities gotta start somewhere.
 
Ramrod said:
I am going to cut supplements except calcium and see if things change. So many possibilities gotta start somewhere.
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You could also try the Earth Pro A regime. It has no fat solubles, and so cuts out those vitamins that could affect targeting.
 
Kaizen said:
You could also try the Earth Pro A regime. It has no fat solubles, and so cuts out those vitamins that could affect targeting.
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That may very well be an option altho I Am not familiar with it. Where is it available?
Thanks
 
chiming in - my veiled was given to me as an emaciated anorexic by previous owner who didn't know what to do . Turns out Vladimir has a deviated tongue, and gets disgusted quickly when he doesn't hit his target. On his own, he'll give it one try, maybe twice a day. Over 2.5 years, he's become less willing to even extend his tongue - will lean over the bowl, crack open his mouth and almost put the tip out a couple times, then turn away. Won't eat anything besides silks, hornworms, and the occasional superworm, unless force fed. I can't see anything on visual exam of his mouth and gullet, but I'm assuming there must be scar tissue or adhesions on the tongue somewhere, perhaps something he ate bit/pinched him 'torqued' it? No lighting or supplement changes have helped.
 
@sarahjowens what supplements are you using and how often for each? What UVB light are you using and do you change it as recommended? What temperature is the basking temperature at?
 
supplements: minerall calcium with each feeding, Cal+D3 once a week,
I'd like to do vitamins (reptivite) once a week if I can but he has hated all the vitamin supplements I've tried and will hunger strike for at least a week if I force it on him.
won't have anything to do with bugs that have been near bee pollen or spirulina.
He does seem to get a small amount of benfit from bene-bac plus so I know his GI isnt' 100% either, his fecals have always been negative but he gets dewormed once a year anyhow.
no other evidence of neurological issues, prehension and strength are good
theres a good gradient temperature from 100 degrees at basking site to 68 at bottom of the cage.
UVB lights are 4 months old T4 linear bulbs from lightyourreptiles, I've got spares in the wings.

He really seems to have some pain in his tongue as he'll want to eat but just not want to extend his tongue, or will just knock the bug off its perch trying to get close to grab it.
 
@Kaizen only thing I can think of is, if you haven't already, is adding retinol vit A into the diet via supplements. I know everyone freaks out because we don't know how much they need, we don't know how much is too much, and it's a fat soluble. I can tell you from my experience in keeping my male panthers and using Repashy Vit A Plus at least once per month on at least 5 feeders has led to 0 edema, and 0 eye issues, as well as 0 misses. As far as I know Arcadia Pro uses 0 fat soluble vitamins and for good reason. Totally understand what John Courtney Smith is trying to do here. Maybe try 1 feeder once a month instead of my 5. I know females need Vit A more than males for clutches. It's just a thought.
 
CamoChameleonsHuman said:
@Kaizen only thing I can think of is, if you haven't already, is adding retinol vit A into the diet via supplements. I know everyone freaks out because we don't know how much they need, we don't know how much is too much, and it's a fat soluble. I can tell you from my experience in keeping my male panthers and using Repashy Vit A Plus at least once per month on at least 5 feeders has led to 0 edema, and 0 eye issues, as well as 0 misses. As far as I know Arcadia Pro uses 0 fat soluble vitamins and for good reason. Totally understand what John Courtney Smith is trying to do here. Maybe try 1 feeder once a month instead of my 5. I know females need Vit A more than males for clutches. It's just a thought.
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I would totally agree with you, but the targeting issue began when I was still using repashy calcium plus, and that has retinol.
 
@Kaizen can you tell me how much D3, vitamin A both prEformed and prOformed in everything that you dust with and feed to your insects and how often you use each please. Not sure I'll be able to do the math on it but we'll see.
 
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