The Levels of Chameleon Keeping

[CarlC]

Some basics examples:

- Keeping correct humidity for a complete year: 10 points
- Keeping correct temps for a year: 10 points
- Having no feeder insect make up more than 40% of diet: 50 points

Some more advanced examples:

- Keeping a wild caught alive past average life expectancy: 200 points
- Hatching a clutch successfully: 100 points
Species multiplier: quads x2, Parsons x4, Bradypodion x3

Who gets to decide what the correct humidity levels are? What about correct temps? Would you compare to natural levels?

What works for some might not work for others.


It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Carl

 

[laurie]

All of you are kidding and most of you are missing Jeremy's point.

I now have a few years of keeping chams. It would be good for me, as a keeper to honestly evaluate where I started, where I am, and most of all, where I want to go and how to get there.

It would at least make all of us take a look are what we are doing.

I will try to do it just for me.

 

[DanSB]

All of you are kidding and most of you are missing Jeremy's point.

I now have a few years of keeping chams. It would be good for me, as a keeper to honestly evaluate where I started, where I am, and most of all, where I want to go and how to get there.

It would at least make all of us take a look are what we are doing.

I will try to do it just for me.

I do think the idea is good.

It would have to be entirely based on accomplishments and key indicators for being able to successfully care for chameleons. It could be a great self assessment tool if done properly. Done incorrectly it would just be a waste of time furthering standard keeper techniques.

First key indicators of success in a field would need to be established. Then a difficulty assigned to that indicator.

Questions should be similar to the following:

- how many chameleons have lived past average captive life span in your care?
- how old
- how often has successful mating happened?
- successful egg laying
- successful hatching
- successful raising
- how successful at acclimating wild caughts

Each of the above relates directly to how good one is at caring for chameleons without making judgments about specific husbandry.

It is also important to know if one is good at keeping chameleons alive and well or just good at buying chameleons.

I personally think many of the keepers here get inappropriately labeled as good keepers because they have owned lots of chameleons or have a ton of knowledge. It is of course good to have the knowledge but experience and practical success means a lot more.

I could write a lot more here but am being called away...

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I see it as a way for the people who think way to much of their "skills" to boast yet again. I would have no idea at all how to put myself on a scale. I tend to think I know next to nothing, yet compared to some I do, who knows.

I do think you would rate high on the scale Jeremy. Or at least I know you rate very high on my personal scale.

Thanks for thinking I would grade high on your scales. I think if grading does happen it should not be done over critically it should be done kindly. Sorry for the late response Laurie I actually have not got much time for this thread I just got back to the house now. I think this idea is a neat idea though absolutely worth doing.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Maybe you could hand out stickers to members for good husbandry, enclosure, feeder care ect.

Would be good for the kids. Didn't you receive your Chameleon Specialist Group sticker? I actually think a Master Chameleon Keeper or Advanced Keeper sticker would look great on my greenhouse.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

So lets get down to the nitty gritty. If you want to skip all the experience of keeping and such...How much will these "levels" or "points" cost? Paypal?

This is strictly prestige points base on what keepers have done in the chameleon keeper hobby. It is supposed to be neat progression of the hobby and that should stay the protocol of the grading. If you read the grading could be done alone if you have got a decent eye for what is going on and grading criteria. If you need to pay someone pay a good chameleon conservation group.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I do think the idea is good.

It would have to be entirely based on accomplishments and key indicators for being able to successfully care for chameleons. It could be a great self assessment tool if done properly. Done incorrectly it would just be a waste of time furthering standard keeper techniques.

First key indicators of success in a field would need to be established. Then a difficulty assigned to that indicator.

Questions should be similar to the following:

- how many chameleons have lived past average captive life span in your care?
- how old
- how often has successful mating happened?
- successful egg laying
- successful hatching
- successful raising
- how successful at acclimating wild caughts

Each of the above relates directly to how good one is at caring for chameleons without making judgments about specific husbandry.

It is also important to know if one is good at keeping chameleons alive and well or just good at buying chameleons.

I personally think many of the keepers here get inappropriately labeled as good keepers because they have owned lots of chameleons or have a ton of knowledge. It is of course good to have the knowledge but experience and practical success means a lot more.

I could write a lot more here but am being called away...

I actually think there should be grades of half points .5 too to give more accurate grades for difficult grades. The protocol for grading all the categories has to be established then grading or self assessment can begin. If someone wants to present their grade publicly they could show how they graded their grade thus justifying their score if they choose too public show and justify their grades.

As far as the Art category I think that should include Literature and Programing (blogs etc..) as well.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy, you're not a very good nerd. The idea itself sounds like great fun but the implementation is lacking. As one who is a genuine nerd I would base it off of Dungeons and Dragons principals. Certain actions / accomplishments could be worth a specific number of experience points. Experience points add up to give one levels in certain categories.

So like instead of your elf casting spells to take out orks you succeDungeons and Dragonsssfully hatch out a clutch. Maybe instead of your cleric healing the wounded you successfully acclimate and nurse a wild caught back to health. And don't forget the basics of course. Being able to raise bugs, keep temps and humidity etc etc.

I'm joking a little here but somthing like this would have to be looked upon as a fun thing that if laid out properly could certainly give newer people a good roadmap of what it takes to be a great keeper, which I think is the intention.

Also if set up correctly it isn't a competition against others but a way for people to judge their own skill level and help identify new challenges along with their own strengths and weaknesses.

I actually have got much more experience leveling from other games other than Dungeons and Dragons even though I'm a big fan. I just never ended up playing D&D much. Dan if you want to contribute it would be great to hear your comments D&D has got a great leveling system. There are card games and video games where you gain points and can level in some instances. This would apply to leveling for a chameleon leveling system (every 10 points is a level). As well I have got a lot of experience though when it comes to grading and criteria for grading, one good one is the Sports Memorabilia Hobby or even Comic Book Hobby. You can ruff/estimate grade your cards/comics by yourself and then if you want an official grade send them in for an official grade. It is a neat deal just as long as it is done in a way that it does not ruin the hobby.

 

[GrimsbyPatchwork]

Yep, there will always be someone with a bigger sausage then you

phahahaha! That cracked me right up! True about the sausage measuring contest although I really think it would be beneficial in some way. Have to say that this forum has a lot of humble members from what i have seen till now. Bs is always around and anyone can smell that! Everyone should have updated photo albums with info to be graded fairly as opposed to being judged over the posts or threads.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Interesting idea, but what would be the point?

To what purpose would it serve?

Putting people in "grades" or "catagories" almost always gets hostile

Yeah I agree.

Like who cares if there's a guy who's level 2, no one pays attention to him because "oh he's only got one cham, never scientifically did anything with it, etc etc" but he treats it royally, it practically loves him, and it is in great health and is spoiled.

I think it's the heart of the owner.

If you love your chams and you give them good stuff then you're a 10 in my book.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

phahahaha! That cracked me right up! True about the sausage measuring contest although I really think it would be beneficial in some way. Have to say that this forum has a lot of humble members from what i have seen till now. Bs is always around and anyone can smell that! Everyone should have updated photo albums with info to be graded fairly as opposed to being judged over the posts or threads.

It would be beneficial. However normally leveling with Dungeons and Dragons is done within a small groups of people. However if your leveling is done public privacy issues would be an issue. Most possibly once all the all the criteria was done officially grading would be to have to be done by a select group of judges to determine the scores.

Yeah I agree.

Like who cares if there's a guy who's level 2, no one pays attention to him because "oh he's only got one cham, never scientifically did anything with it, etc etc" but he treats it royally, it practically loves him, and it is in great health and is spoiled.

I think it's the heart of the owner.

If you love your chams and you give them good stuff then you're a 10 in my book.

That is a great point and would have to be worked into the criteria. Possibly where some points count as 1 point (such as breeding a clutch of panthers) there could be passion points that count as between 2 or 3 points. Those could be just for overall passion shown for the hobby. However I think the Art section would cover some of that consideration in regards to people who are enthusiastic about there chameleon or chameleons to the point that they make art work, take extra photo's, write blogs and etc.. However of the top of my head these passion points could basically be for keepers that just go over the top about the chameleon hobby in regards to any of the criteria.

 

[leedragon]

I don´t think is a good idea, while there is chameleons that are really hard to keep there is also the fact that people will start to get chamelon and chamelons for get to a certan level where the chameleon they wanted from the begining is, now what happens to all the beginner chameleons?

who is gonna keep them? are they just gonna keep changing home until they end up in a bad home and die ?

I think it would be better that one read about the chameleon they really want to get, try to get as much information as posdible and then go för the one you really want

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I don´t think is a good idea, while there is chameleons that are really hard to keep there is also the fact that people will start to get chamelon and chamelons for get to a certan level where the chameleon they wanted from the begining is, now what happens to all the beginner chameleons?

who is gonna keep them? are they just gonna keep changing home until they end up in a bad home and die ?

I think it would be better that one read about the chameleon they really want to get, try to get as much information as posdible and then go för the one you really want

I do not understand what you are asking? If someone wants a certain chameleon species I assume they are going to have researched and read about that species before acquiring one. I would always recommend for a first chameleon that a beginner start with a beginner chameleon. Meaning there is always going to be homes for beginner chameleons.

 

[GrimsbyPatchwork]

It would not be based on how many chams you have managed to own and care for successfully..imho if you know the husbandry, temps, humidity, gut loading and supplementation of a veiled, that would already place you in a level 3-5 or so. Lets face it, i have only kept chams as reptiles and everyone knows that they are the not the easiest to raise successfully. A form with a set of questions re care would need to be filled in by the members and they would be rated basically off that. At the same time it would benefit certain members who will actually have to look up the info to fill in these questions..

 

[Solid Snake]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-makes-you-qualify-90101/#post842273

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-makes-you-qualify-90101/#post842273

HaHa Those are terrible aspirations!!