Think Lily's Poorly!

[Miss Lily]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Exo Terra glass with screen lid and vented front - 18x18x24 inches. Also I fix a mesh panel across the open doors when it is warm enough.
* Lighting - ReptiGlo 10.0 tube and 35W Sunglo daylight bulb (heat). Lights on 12 hours per day. NO lights at night with adequate temp drop.
* Temperature - Basking 82 - 83F. Ambient & rest of cage 68-70F. She always sits in her basking spot - only goes to the bottom when laying.
* Humidity - Misting twice daily. Humidity peaks at 80% after misting and drops to around 50% when cage is dry.
* Plants - 3 shefflera plants.
* Placement - In alcove in lounge. Top of cage at 5ft. Room has normal family use in the evening (only dimly lit after dark - cage is covered at night.)
* Location - Isle of Wight, UK. (Island on UK south coast with sea humidity and breeze!)

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Female veiled, 19 months. Had her for a year on 13th May.
* Handling - Sometimes daily - cham's choice!
* Feeding - Crix, locust & supers. 4 locusts or or crix and 2 supers. Gut loaded with rocket & apple. Occasionally 2 waxworms. She eats minimally when receptive and gravid (maybe one food item every couple of days).
* Supplements - Calypso calcium on Mon, Weds & Fri, and Reptivite without D3 once a fortnight.
* Watering - Mist twice daily until she drinks - usually she licks her lips straight away. Also drinks from a rodent bottle when dripped in front of her. Don't see her drink from the leaves.
* Fecal Description - Urates small part orange tint but mainly white (she only goes once a week at the moment) - when she goes every day the urates are always white, usually accompanied by a good amount of water. Feaces look normal although can be quite moist when she hasn't done any for a while! This mornings was ok and normal looking. Never been tested.
* History - Lays over 100 infertile eggs per clutch (has laid two clutches). She gets natural sunlight for a few hours daily when weather, wind and temps permit.
* Current Problem - The last couple of days her eyes have looked sunk in. She looks poorly today - I came home from work and found her with her eyes shut. She hasn't eaten anything since Saturday. Still drinking. Grip very strong.

I carried her to the bathroom for a shower and she laid in my hand with her eyes shut. Eyes seem to have improved since the shower though. She just looks 'poorly'. I will make a Vet appointment tomorrow if there's no real improvement. Just wanted some input from the forum in case I can do anything for her in the meantime!

 

[SoCaliSon]

Wow... Over 100 fertile eggs per clutch. I notice in all of her pics... Lily is kind of a "Gerthy" girl. In the pics of her on your hand from yesterday, I have to say seems quite a bit overweight, and if she is laying over 100 infertile eggs per laying, then I would definately recommend slowing her down on the a good amount. Excess amounts of fat can really do a lot of harm.


I would also try to collect a fecal sample before heading to the vet.

Best wishes, hope she is okay.

~Joe

 

[Miss Lily]

Aww! I don't think that she's particularly fat - she's got a round girly cham shape though! In fact she's looking quite slim at the moment! Her last clutch was on Easter Sunday and she was huge! In the photos she was basking and all spread out - I could feel her belly resting on my palm!

What do I put a fecal sample in to take with me? Will it be ok in a sandwich bag? She usually produces fairly early in the morning at the moment.

 

[ronnie]

sorry to hear Lily is feeling poorly Sorry i can't be more help but sending my best wishes XX

 

[Docility]

Aww! I don't think that she's particularly fat - she's got a round girly cham shape though! In fact she's looking quite slim at the moment! Her last clutch was on Easter Sunday and she was huge! In the photos she was basking and all spread out - I could feel her belly resting on my palm!

What do I put a fecal sample in to take with me? Will it be ok in a sandwich bag? She usually produces fairly early in the morning at the moment.

little plastic bag with maybe a drop or 2 of water to keep it moist.

get some pics of her eyes, and the tip of her tail

 

[ToniandGizmo]

I'm so sorry to hear that Lily is feeling under the weather. My first cham was a very gentle natured (rare I know) female veiled. So your Lily has a very special place in my heart. I'm sure some of the senior members will chime in as soon as they have a chance. It is good though that you have a vet appointment. Keep us all informed please.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Not trying to come down on you or Lily! And I hope no offense was taken at my comment on her weight. Just wan to help. The thought came to mind when I read this...

4 locusts or or crix and 2 supers.

. If that is a daily offering for an adult female, I would think that a little on the heavy side. Not to mention... 100+ eggs... more than once... I see this as major flag that should could possibly be getting over fed. Just trying to help.

 

[Miss Lily]

little plastic bag with maybe a drop or 2 of water to keep it moist.

get some pics of her eyes, and the tip of her tail

Will post pics later. She does the sunken eye thing when she starts to cycle eggs - it's something I've observed in her behaviour pattern. What worries me is that it's too soon since the last clutch, so it must be something else!

Why a pic of the tail, Docility? I'm intrigued!

 

[Docility]

its a long shot, but if there is tip discoloration on the tail it could be Hypovitaminosis A. I have only seen 4 cases of this first hand one with my chameleon, 2 people brought in the store, and 1 we were housing at the store. their eyes would close they were lethargic, and kinda clumsy, and did that eye bob thing a good bit. also they all had a discoloration on this tip of their tail. After giving Vitamin A it cleared up in about 6 days for everyone.

like i said long shot, but just curious

 

[Miss Lily]

its a long shot, but if there is tip discoloration on the tail it could be Hypovitaminosis A. I have only seen 4 cases of this first hand one with my chameleon, 2 people brought in the store, and 1 we were housing at the store. their eyes would close they were lethargic, and kinda clumsy, and did that eye bob thing a good bit. also they all had a discoloration on this tip of their tail. After giving Vitamin A it cleared up in about 6 days for everyone.

like i said long shot, but just curious

Her tail is ok. It does have a bruise on the end from when she got it stuck in the lock on her cage! Other than that it looks normal.

 

[Miss Lily]

Not trying to come down on you or Lily! And I hope no offense was taken at my comment on her weight. Just wan to help. The thought came to mind when I read this... . If that is a daily offering for an adult female, I would think that a little on the heavy side. Not to mention... 100+ eggs... more than once... I see this as major flag that should could possibly be getting over fed. Just trying to help.

No offence taken. I just think she looks 'normal' after that clutch. I had tried to cut her food down but she was so hungry after laying that she would easily have scoffed double that amount! Where she hardly eats when receptive and gravid it has been nice to have her wanting to eat for a change! When she was 6 months she would eat up to 17 food items a day, so, to me her eating 4-6 items per day is not a lot!

 

[SoCaliSon]

No offence taken. I just think she looks 'normal' after that clutch. I had tried to cut her food down but she was so hungry after laying that she would easily have scoffed double that amount! Where she hardly eats when receptive and gravid it has been nice to have her wanting to eat for a change! When she was 6 months she would eat up to 17 food items a day, so, to me her eating 4-6 items per day is not a lot!

Just remember that female veileds will gorge themselves. In my experience, My fem Veileds will eat and eat and eat, and very rarely will they decide they have had enough, and stop eating voluntarily. In the wild where food is not as readily available they still have to eat enough to support those eggs, so most likely they eat all they can when they can, in order to survive. We cannot allow them to do this in captivity, as food is available daily and they will subsequently become over weight, and produce oversized clutches. Just because she will eat does not mean she is hungry.

I'm sorry to say this so bluntly, but I need to put it in a way where you understand te seriousness... 2 clutches over 100+ eggs... She is being overfed, and if you don't fail to recognize this soon, and if she continues to cycle those size clutches, her life will be shortened drastically.

 

[Miss Lily]

Update & Photo

Here's a photo of Lily's eye. They look very sunk in to me. She wanted to come out just now, so I sat with her in my hand and she stayed there very still and shut her eyes. That's when I phoned the vet - reptile vet not available till next week - earliest app with another vet is tomorrow morning at 9.20. While I was on the phone she was asleep in my hand and I had my doubts that she would make it till tomorrow. A few minutes later and she's wandering around again!

 

[Miss Lily]

Forgot to add photo!

Sorry forgot to attach photo.

 

[SoCaliSon]

This doesn't sound good.

 

[sallyb]

I can`t post any constructive advice being fairly new to Chams, but i am sorry to hear Lily is ill and i really hope she will soon be back to her usual self.

 

[jannb]

Don't wait. Take Lily to the vet ASAP. I don't want anything to happen to Lily. Do you have a good chameleon vet?

 

[laurie]

Tiff I know just how you feel about cutting down on Lily's food. Eisentrauti was all over me about the amount I fed my group. I called the vet and Eisentrauti is 100% correct, I was shortening their lives by overfeeding, or in our cases loving them too much. You and I are the same with our chams. This time hopefully Lily just had a bad feeder or some other minor problem, I am sure she will be fine. Just give her lots and lots of water and keep her a little warmer than usual until you see the vet. Let me know how she is.

 

[eisentrauti]

Just give her lots and lots of water

Yes that's the most important point to get her healthy again. Your luck is that calyptratus are very hardy and so she's probably back on a good way.
You must do many things wrong to let them die. Just make clear that they have an other metabolism than we and other mammals.

 

[Docility]

how are her urates looking? nice and white im guessing?

to contradict everyone i have also heard of them doing this if their fat plate/sack between their eyes gets low which is what keeps their eyes bulbous. her casque still looks good what about her tail is it still plump?