Thought I've seen it all.....

[OldChamKeeper]

So I have two wonderful rescue Quads. They unrelated to anything in the states since they were confiscated from an illegal shipment I'm told was about 5 years back.

I decided to pair them up.

What happened next is nothing I've ever heard of.

The male is not receptive. He flares up like he's gonna fight another male. Wants nothing to do with her. He's acting like she's an ex-wife coming around for larger alimony payments and the look he gives me is like "Bro, I'm not touching that with your D***."

I have never seen a Male chameleon turn down a willing female. I checked his nuts, they're still there.

The female is receptive. I tested this with one of my captive born male quads who would like nothing more than to do her. However I explained to my CBB male that his genetics are not needed and sent him pouting back to his cage alone. I'm sure he'll try and kill me in my sleep after teasing him with a 75g female.

So thoughts?

 

[alphakenc]

Lol, its all about the chemistry between them.....how heavy is ur illegal shipment male,is he about the same size compare with the CBB male??

 

[jajeanpierre]

So I have two wonderful rescue Quads. They unrelated to anything in the states since they were confiscated from an illegal shipment I'm told was about 5 years back.

I decided to pair them up.

What happened next is nothing I've ever heard of.

The male is not receptive. He flares up like he's gonna fight another male. Wants nothing to do with her. He's acting like she's an ex-wife coming around for larger alimony payments and the look he gives me is like "Bro, I'm not touching that with your D***."

I have never seen a Male chameleon turn down a willing female. I checked his nuts, they're still there.

The female is receptive. I tested this with one of my captive born male quads who would like nothing more than to do her. However I explained to my CBB male that his genetics are not needed and sent him pouting back to his cage alone. I'm sure he'll try and kill me in my sleep after teasing him with a 75g female.

So thoughts?

I had a lot of trouble when I was first trying to get a breeding to my young male gracilior and a receptive female. When I put her in his cage, he ran down, knocked her down and tried to gore her like bull fighting bull. Poor thing was on her back with him trying to gore her! It took me a bit to get her away from him because she was tangled in the branches--I should have grabbed him rather than try to extricate her. That was the last time I ever introduced chams and then shut the door.

I let them both calm down then put him in her cage. He minded his manners and bred her.

I'm trying to breed him to both my adult gracilior females and he seems to be showing aggression again--no nodding.

I just started introducing a female quad back to my quad male who has bred her on two different cycles before. He's being a real jerk and acting very aggressive towards her. He's also flaring up when he sees me, so I think his hormones are a bit on overdrive. I don't know if she is receptive yet, but he isn't showing any breeding behavior, just aggression.

 

[Lazereth]

Maybe a romantic diner is in order first....

 

[Carlton]

So I have two wonderful rescue Quads. They unrelated to anything in the states since they were confiscated from an illegal shipment I'm told was about 5 years back.

I decided to pair them up.

What happened next is nothing I've ever heard of.

The male is not receptive. He flares up like he's gonna fight another male. Wants nothing to do with her. He's acting like she's an ex-wife coming around for larger alimony payments and the look he gives me is like "Bro, I'm not touching that with your D***."

I have never seen a Male chameleon turn down a willing female. I checked his nuts, they're still there.

The female is receptive. I tested this with one of my captive born male quads who would like nothing more than to do her. However I explained to my CBB male that his genetics are not needed and sent him pouting back to his cage alone. I'm sure he'll try and kill me in my sleep after teasing him with a 75g female.

So thoughts?

Wonder if he detects some subtle locality variation that tells him she's "not his type"? Maybe there are markings some males prefer and some that their hardwired "good choice in a female" selection sense warns him to reject? Maybe she's too big and intimidating? Maybe he's been alone too long? Too old?

 

[JGuinan007]

Play some Marvin Gay for him

 

[JaniP]

You're clearly missing some mood lighting.

So weird!

 

[bobcochran]

Maybe Bill has a male you could "borrow".

Try putting the wild caught male in his own cage with your captive bred male on one side of him in his own cage, then put the female on the other side of the wild male in her cage for a day or two. Good luck Ralph, we Need those genes, no pressure!!
What h

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Maybe Bill has a male you could "borrow".

Try putting the wild caught male in his own cage with your captive bred male on one side of him in his own cage, then put the female on the other side of the wild male in her cage for a day or two. Good luck Ralph, we Need those genes, no pressure!!
What h

Yeah yeah I know. I have one of Bill's offspring.

As for appearances, I do not detect anything unusual after really looking hard. Age could be a factor since he is a pretty large male, has been in the states for five documented years, and we really don't know their life span as a species. I'm placing a guess they live to be about ten. Some may laugh at that but those who know me a little from here know I don't care. My SWAG's tend to pan out a bit more than not over all the years.

Instead of putting him in an outdoor cage next to the CBB male quad to get his juices flowing I'll substitute the CBB quad for Atlas. Should make for a nice little patio lunch time show, clearly I won't leave them alone even if they are unable to reach each other. After that I'll place the female in the outdoor cage and take Atlas out of the picture. Maybe he'll be a little nicer to the female and then I can put them together.

 

[Dooley1]

This isn't surprising at all. That's also a very common response in my experience breeding quads. I'm always more surprised when a male quad does breed rather than the opposite. Most chameleons aren't like calyptratus and pardalis where they pretty much do everything for you. Ralph, did you ask Elisa if she ever tried breeding him before?

 

[ponders]

I would think age is a big factor. He must be at least 6 years old.

 

[bobcochran]

Yeah yeah I know. I have one of Bill's offspring.

As for appearances, I do not detect anything unusual after really looking hard. Age could be a factor since he is a pretty large male, has been in the states for five documented years, and we really don't know their life span as a species. I'm placing a guess they live to be about ten. Some may laugh at that but those who know me a little from here know I don't care. My SWAG's tend to pan out a bit more than not over all the years.

Instead of putting him in an outdoor cage next to the CBB male quad to get his juices flowing I'll substitute the CBB quad for Atlas. Should make for a nice little patio lunch time show, clearly I won't leave them alone even if they are unable to reach each other. After that I'll place the female in the outdoor cage and take Atlas out of the picture. Maybe he'll be a little nicer to the female and then I can put them together.

Do you have one of Bill's wild caught?

 

[jajeanpierre]

This isn't surprising at all. That's also a very common response in my experience breeding quads. I'm always more surprised when a male quad does breed rather than the opposite. Most chameleons aren't like calyptratus and pardalis where they pretty much do everything for you. Ralph, did you ask Elisa if she ever tried breeding him before?

How do you deal with it?

The male gracilior I have managed to get many clutches from bred to my first gracilior female is going back to his naughty ways. He is pushing the with his horns and biting a new female that I think might be receptive. I separate them quickly, but since the female is not turning her non-receptive black or rocking, I trust her judgement and allow him to get close.

When I got his first breeding ever, he had the receptive female on her back as he tried to gore her when I put her in his cage. I separated them, let them both calm down and then introduced them again in her cage. He did nudge her side a little with his horns, but she stayed still--in fact she positioned herself so it was easy for him to breed--and I got a breeding. I bred him every day to try to teach him some manners. He's been fine until now.

Heeding Bobcochran's advice, I've set up two cages side by side outdoors and will try in the mornings when it is still cool. I haven't added another male to the mix as Bobcochran suggested simply because all my adult males are wild caught and I have found breeding has stressed them in the past. I could put a 6-month old captive hatched gracilior in the mix but wonder if I will just be stressing them all to bits. The poor female is worried enough as it is.

I have three male graciliors to choose from--two wild caught adults and a 6-month old I hatched from a female imported gravid. Since the gene pool is so limited, I have planned breedings and don't really want to deviate from my plan if I can avoid it. I particularly want to breed the one pair I am trying to breed right now (described above) since both have such spectacular blue coloring. Both have been bred before. I am not crazy about the condition of my other wild caught male and really want him looking better before I stress him with trying to breed him.

I would really appreciate some advice. I wonder if a much larger breeding enclosure--maybe even a free range set up--might be the solution. I doubt I could do something like that. I know one quad breeder who keeps the males and females together in very large enclosures, probably something close to the size that Ralph's Atlas is in.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I would think age is a big factor. He must be at least 6 years old.

Can you elaborate? Do males get more aggressive towards females as they get older? Or are you suggesting that he is past fertility and is responding aggressively rather than sexually to the female?

 

[ponders]

Can you elaborate? Do males get more aggressive towards females as they get older? Or are you suggesting that he is past fertility and is responding aggressively rather than sexually to the female?

I would think both of them would be past being fertile. Especially the female, imho

My female, Fynn, is a CH baby from one of the females from this confiscation, and she is done breeding already. She laid 10 clutches. And was only bred 3 times. She is almost 4 years old, and laid her last clutch early last year.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Yeah I have considered they may be past breeding age. However I do have to say I wouldn't expect a male to give up even in old age if the animal has full mobility and attitude. Also the female is receptive. I may just let the CBB male have his chance and give it a try for this imported female. I'm not seeing L change his attitude. Speaking of which. . .

So, L being an aggressive little monster wanted into the lush jungle next to his pretty decent home. So, being evil, I let him climb from across his habitat, over my arm, and into the Lush Jungle. He got about ten steps before he was faced with a solid wall of pissed off Atlas on full sideways display and inflated to burst.

L turned around and climbed back over my arm to his cage. Exploring was done for the day.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

This isn't surprising at all. That's also a very common response in my experience breeding quads. I'm always more surprised when a male quad does breed rather than the opposite. Most chameleons aren't like calyptratus and pardalis where they pretty much do everything for you. Ralph, did you ask Elisa if she ever tried breeding him before?

Man I never had a problem with Quads hooking up. They've been as easy as a jackson for me in past years but this time was a shock. I'm guessing age is a solid factor like Tylene was thinking. I just don't know how old they really are.

 

[bobcochran]

I still wish you would try one of Bill's wild caught males.
I know, I know it's a pain in the butt.

 

[Garrett]

This sounds like a knee jerk territorial issue to me, some chameleons are very stand-offish to other chameleons at first blush regardless of species or sex. I have seen a chameleon in threat display literally turn on a dime and go into breeding display, like a switch being thrown.
Have they been able to see each other up to before the introduction? You could try housing them side by side where they can get close and see each other but not physically interact for a few days, he might calm down and get in the mood. The fact he's getting very aggressive is actually a good sign he's got the goods.
Maybe he's just a sensitive guy that needs some gettin' to know ya chit chat first, not on the first date etc etc
Parsonii can take days\weeks of cohabitation before they are comfortable enough to display breeding behavior, maybe it's a montane thang.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I had this problem with deremensis after about a year in captivity. WC males would never hesitate to court females or fight males. Until they were in captivity for a year. Then they lost all interest. For me, it was that my room was far too warm, and they never got a cool down period. Moving to a cooler basement in the mountains fixed that.

What worked at the time was letting them see another male. Every day, for a couple weeks. My WC male went from being so calm I thought I could leave them together to charging the smaller male so violently, I got stabbed in the palm of my hand by him as I blocked his attack - he broke the skin of my hand with his attack(this male came in with needle straight, unnecessarily-sharp horns).

After he decided fighting was in his blood, he had no issues with the females.