Tips/advice

[Thanos22]

Hello I'm a brand new member and my little guy is 3 -4 months old and doesn't hide from me really at all. for the past month of owning him I've noticed how sometimes hell head the other way or kinda hiss at first but once he's grabbed on to me he does great going finger to finger and never acts timid toward me when I do handle him. I was wondering if this was bad at his age should I backoff a little? What's the best way to kinda ensure he likes to hang out of the cage? Is he always kinda absolutely hate the spray bottle?

 

[Remkon]

Backing off is probably a good idea... Signs of them not being pleased are easy to miss, especially when they don't show it in obvious defensive behavior.
They aren't social animals so it's highly unlikely that he enjoys being handled in such a short time.
The moving from finger to finger is probably ti get away from you but well .... He just can't seem to get away... Pretty frustrating to him I'd think.

Around puberty he will probably change in behaviour, starting to show more defensive behavior if he's unpleased.
These animals take everything slow, you should adapt to that. If you want more interaction you should try feeding him treats by hand, when he's used to that try to lure him on your hand before giving him a treat. Eventually he will learn you are the bringer of goodies and not out to eat him.
If you want him to enjoy time out best way is to offer him a free range area.

 

[Thanos22]

Backing off is probably a good idea... Signs of them not being pleased are easy to miss, especially when they don't show it in obvious defensive behavior.
They aren't social animals so it's highly unlikely that he enjoys being handled in such a short time.
The moving from finger to finger is probably ti get away from you but well .... He just can't seem to get away... Pretty frustrating to him I'd think.

Around puberty he will probably change in behaviour, starting to show more defensive behavior if he's unpleased.
These animals take everything slow, you should adapt to that. If you want more interaction you should try feeding him treats by hand, when he's used to that try to lure him on your hand before giving him a treat. Eventually he will learn you are the bringer of goodies and not out to eat him.
If you want him to enjoy time out best way is to offer him a free range area.

Ah ok he also has just sat and laid down on my finger for several minutes while watching TV he seems pretty comfortable out but if this much handling early could change that later on I'll back off a bit. He will also grab on to me no problem alot more than just a few times he has just walked on to my finger from his perch spot. he has even done this little run hop thing on to my arm a couple times as well I'm just trying to figure out what it all means

 

[WAMBO]

Don't forget this wonderful resource that is post with info for successful husbandry:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/

 

[jajeanpierre]

Ah ok he also has just sat and laid down on my finger for several minutes while watching TV he seems pretty comfortable out but if this much handling early could change that later on I'll back off a bit. He will also grab on to me no problem alot more than just a few times he has just walked on to my finger from his perch spot. he has even done this little run hop thing on to my arm a couple times as well I'm just trying to figure out what it all means

You have described a chameleon that is very uncomfortable. It is very easy for a novice to misunderstand chameleon body language. Those of us how have a lot of animals and watch them can be fooled, too, so you are not alone.

My position on chameleons in general is they do not like to be handled at all. Some species and some individuals seem to tolerate it better than others, but I want to emphasize the word "tolerate." Many pet chameleon keepers have chameleons that live quite short lives, often short unhealthy lives. Stress suppresses the immune system. Stress is not an emotion, it is a physiological response to stimuli that manifests itself in the release of a cascade of hormones. One of those hormones, cortisol, suppresses the immune system. So, when some keepers tell you that they always handle their chameleons thinking it does no harm but their chameleons have a multitude of health problems or they rarely can keep a chameleon alive to be "old" you have to question their advice about handling them.

I believe the best chameleon keepers are astute observers.

So, back to what you wrote. I'll try to help you see what I think is happening.

I've noticed how sometimes hell head the other way or kinda hiss at first....

There is nothing ambiguous about this. He is fleeing you and trying to frighten you away by hissing. This is defense behavior. He is treating you like a predator. Always think of yourself as a predator and you will start to change your behavior to be less threatening to him. You will move more slowly, lower your eyes and never look him in the eyes (that is what predators do before they attack). You will avoid as much as possible holding his body. Predators pin prey before they kill it. He is hard wired to respond to being grabbed. In general, you will start looking at him as a tiny defenseless prey species with very ineffective defense strategies once discovered by a predator. That will reduce the stress level of your chameleon.

If every interaction with your chameleon is one where they are afraid of being eaten by you (which is how he feels whenever you grab him), you will be training the neural pathways to respond to you as a predator. You don't want that kind of training going on!

.....but once he's grabbed on to me he does great going finger to finger and never acts timid toward me when I do handle him.

This behavior fools a lot of chameleon keepers, novice and not so novice.

A chameleon has very few defensive strategies once detected by a predator. They are a slow moving creature that relies on being unseen by predators. Once seen and threatened, many do not flee. Some will just swivel around behind the branch with almost imperceptible movement. Some will curl up in a ball and drop to the ground and lay still, acting as if they are a falling leaf. They often remain still and try to appear more threatening by inflating their air sacks to appear bigger. They might flatten their body and turn sideways, presenting a larger profile to the predator. They can gape, hiss, rock and lunge. They have special scales around their mouth that look like big teeth. In some species, those scales are white. Below is a picture of a newly hatched gracilior showing those scales. That's a scary face!

Ah ok he also has just sat and laid down on my finger for several minutes while watching TV he seems pretty comfortable out but if this much handling early could change that later on I'll back off a bit. He will also grab on to me no problem alot more than just a few times he has just walked on to my finger from his perch spot. he has even done this little run hop thing on to my arm a couple times as well I'm just trying to figure out what it all means


What I have noticed with my many wild caught imports is that they usually appear to be calm and relaxed when being handled. They do not bite, gape, hiss, or flee. They don't show me stress colors. They just sit there looking very calm. I KNOW they cannot be calm. They would have to be brain dead to be internally calm.

I once took a newly imported gracilior to the vet. His only interaction with humanity had been getting whacked out of a tree by a stick in Cameroon and handled roughly by the collectors and exporter. I had had no interaction with him other than to grab him out of his cage to weigh him or medicate him. There was no way he didn't view all of humanity as big chameleon killers that for some unexplained reason had not killed him, yet.

I transported him to the vet in a carrier in a dark bag to reduce stress. When the vet was ready to examine him, I brought him out. He calmly climbed out of the carrier and perched on the edge as the vet observed him. He looked perfectly calm and tame. He wasn't puffed up, no stress colors, nothing. He looked and behaved as calm as if he were deep in his cover in his cage at home. When I put my hand out to him, he eagerly climbed up on it (because it was a little higher than the box which was sitting in the middle of the examination table). That was escape behavior but many keeps think it is tameness. It is not. That was the only defensive behavior he exhibited. We couldn't even bother him enough by tapping or lightly holding him behind the head to get him to open his mouth. Just because he didn't try to bite us when we did all the tricks you do to get them to gape doesn't mean he wasn't terrified.

It takes very good observational skill PLUS experience with observing many chameleons. I just did a head count. I have 29 wild caught adult chameleons in my house unless I missed one or two. That's a lot of individual chameleons to observe and learn from. Most keepers don't intimately watch more than their one or two captive born animals. A wild caught will exhibit a full range of defense behaviors that a captive hatched animal might not. An animal that does not exhibit effective defense strategies soon becomes lunch. The fact my wild caughts survived in the wild demonstrates they had effective defense strategies (or were very lucky!). They were successful.

They have high mortality/morbidity rate in captivity and die far too young in great numbers so most keepers have to be doing something very wrong. They do not form social bonds with their young or their mates, which suggests they are incapable on a neurological level to form any kind of relationship with a human although they will become used to you.

To try to summarize, it is very difficult to interpret behavior in chameleons. Leave him alone. Enjoy watching him from a distance. Don't put him out in the open where he is just waiting to be eaten. They are wonderful creatures that don't do well when handled.