To D3 or not to D3?

[wjbader]

SO, I went to the local reptile shop to get some reptiworms (they had none) or something other than crickets (came out with small hornworms) because my 3-month-or-so-old female Veiled is only eating about 4 crickets a day. Anywho, that's beside the point. I am writing this because the saleswoman I was speaking to asked me if I dusted daily with Calcium w/D3 and I said that I will be dusting with Calcium w/D3 a couple times a month, Calcium only every day (Herptivite a couple times, too). She asked me if my chameleon was living outside, and if she isn't, she told me she needs D3 DAILY. And she did it very sternly. I told her what I had learned (from this site, thank you!) and she said if she's not living outside, she needs her daily D3.

My question? What would happen if I dusted daily with Calcium w/D3? Is it bad for her? I've heard both sides of the story, but most people have said NOT to dust daily with Calcium w/D3.

Answers? Input? Thanks!

ALSO, I looked for just Calcium powder at this reptile shop and the ONLY carried Calcium w/D3 and multivitamins. Same with PetSmart. I'll have to order online...

 

[AESara]

I know that I used calcium w/ D3 more often than I should have when I had just gotten my chameleon and the calcium w/o D3 was on its way (I had to order online too). Too much D3 can actually cause the body to absorb bones and the internal organs to calcify (luckily I stopped early enough for this not to happen). Earlier on, you would probably start to see mineral buildup around the nose (it would be a whitish powder).

 

[Psychodrake]

Did you or her mention anything about UV lights? Maybe she thought you didn't have one. You would have to give him D3 daily without a UV light I imagine. Daily D3 with a UV light however will probably end up calcifying his organs. However, if your chameleon gets enough sun per week, they don't need D3 supplements at all.

Probably just confusion in the discussion.

 

[AESara]

That is true. UVB is necessary for the body to produce the needed amounts of D3. Is it possible she thought you did not have a UVB bulb?

 

[sandrachameleon]

It also depends on the brand of calicum +D3. Some contain a very high quantity of D3, others a very low amount. How often you should supplement with D3 depends on brand of supplement, type of chameleon, whether or not it goes outside (and how much), UVB tubes, even how you gutload. We should not assume a "one isze fits all" schedule of "twice a month".
Also, other lizards may have a much higher need for D3 than chameleons, so the pet store persons knowledge may be skewd by that.


Ive not seen any evidence of white stuff around the nose being an indication of overdosing with D3.

 

[seanUTD]

It also depends on the brand of calicum +D3. Some contain a very high quantity of D3, others a very low amount. How often you should supplement with D3 depends on brand of supplement, type of chameleon, whether or not it goes outside (and how much), UVB tubes, even how you gutload. We should not assume a "one isze fits all" schedule of "twice a month".
Also, other lizards may have a much higher need for D3 than chameleons, so the pet store persons knowledge may be skewd by that.


Ive not seen any evidence of white stuff around the nose being an indication of overdosing with D3.

Took the words right out of my mouth... To determine how much D3 you personally need to use with your cham it depends on the brand, amount of natural sun, time under the UVB and the ACTUAL output of your UVB.... I give my two guys different amounts, Stanley who is docile and therefore can come out more doesn't receive D3 supplementation but MAYBE once a month... He spends a lot of time under his UVB and receives about an hour of natural sun daily... He was also over-supplemented when I got him due to my inexperience and began to develop MBD but I was able to catch it and halt it... He is now very healthy. My other cham though receives it up to 3 times a month because he does not come out at all... I use flukers which has only 100,000 IU/lb of D3 which is pretty low for that kind of supplement. Some of which can go up to 400,000 IU/lb.

When it comes to the white stuff I have seen a lot of people talking about that it is venting calcium or other minerals which I don't believe to be true, if anything I believe it's excess salts leaving the body and not a sign of over-supplementation... JMHO

 

[wjbader]

Thanks for all of your responses. If I were to give you some info, would anyone be able to tell me how much to use? Or if it's too much to use daily (I'm assuming 400,000 IU/Kg is too much...).

I am using:
1.) Reptisun 5.0 compact bulb on for 12 hours
2.) Rep-Cal's Phosphorous-Free CALCIUM with VIT. D3 which says "vitamin D3 minimum 400,000 IU/Kg"

 

[sandrachameleon]

I am using:
1.) Reptisun 5.0 compact bulb on for 12 hours
2.) Rep-Cal's Phosphorous-Free CALCIUM with VIT. D3 which says "vitamin D3 minimum 400,000 IU/Kg"

Yes, that wouldnt be good if used daily. I use the same UV light tube, and I use that same D3 product about every other week. I have panther chameleons (Id do the same for Veileds if I had them). I do not gutload with any animal source foods (no egg, no meat, no dog food) so no D3 in my gutload either.

I should say that I've used this same D3 product for over a decade. In the early years, I used it weekly, rather than every other week as I do now. Even though the RepCal product is very potent and I wouldnt now recommend using it weekly (certainly not daily), I admit I've noticed no difference in the healthy of my chameleons either way. So there is some room for error.

You may find this blog entry information / interesting:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html

 

[wjbader]

Thank you, Sandrachameleon. Very helpful and I will refer to the Blog in the future!

Than you those who replied!

 

[kinyonga]

The idea of supplementing a couple of times a month with a product containing D3 is to ensure that the chameleon gets some without overdoing it and leaving it to get the rest from the UVB it gets from the UVB light in its cage. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and cause symptoms similar to MBD as well as be hard on the kidneys. D3 from exposure to the UVB should not build up as long as the chameleon can move away from it as it wishes.

As was said, some supplements with D3 can be used more often depending on how much is in the supplement.