To Euthanize or not...

FFSTRescue

New Member
I can't decide if I should euthanize my Meller's cham who is dying of pancreatic and kidney failure, or let her live out her life comfortable and peacefully. She is not showing stress coloration, and accepts the food and fluids I give her orally. I have her on a pillow, in a very quiet room, by the window, by her favorite tree, and she looks out the window which overlooks the woods. Her ideal temperature right now is 75 degrees which is what I keep her at. I carry her pillow outside daily to be in the sun at different times of the day, and she will move in and out of the shade as needed. I spy on her so she cannot see me watching, but she will lay on her pillow, looking around, watching the insects fly around her, and like I said, she shows completely normal coloration and shows no signs of stress. Her body is failing, there is nothing more I can do, and it is as though she has accepted it. She is very week, and I thought she would have died sooner, but she is still holding on, and every morning I expect to find her dead, but she won't let go. I have awoken every morning for a week expecting to find her dead, but she isn't. She isn't even losing weight due to the management of the condition. But death is inevitable.
I obtained her from someone who recently bought her online, and after learning how difficult this species is to maintain without the correct set-up, she came to live with me in a room size cage, as well as a huge outdoor enclosure. I am a vet tech that works at a clinic that sees reptiles, so I often am given ill reptiles to care for. The person had her for 2 weeks, then I had her for about a week before she started going downhill. She started showing signs of dehydration despite sufficient and even excessive hydration, and her food was passing through whole. Literally, wax worms came out looking the exact way they went in, hence the pancreatic failure. As most of you know, this species stresses easily, so minimal poking and prodding is best. When she would become dehydrated, I would give her SubQ fluids, and it would perk her back up, but then a few days later she would become dehydrated again, as she is not able to utilize much of the water she is ingesting, so needless to say, she is given syringes full of water and pedialyte daily. Constantly giving fluids SQ is stressful, and I think it is inhumane to keep doing it, so I won't. Blood profile indicated pancreatic, liver, and renal insufficiency/failure, so obviously nothing more can be done. She has had her diet modified, receives supplements for pancreatic exocrine insufficiency, etc. And she is on morphine given the fact that I wan't her to be comfortable during her last days, which seems to be working well and she apparently seems to like ;-).
The problem is, I don't know how long these last days will be. This is not a cut and dry, black and white decision. My vet I work for even says it is up to me, and I could go either way. I just want people's opinions, experiences from the past, if they had a similar situation and wished they did or didn't euthanize. I am not asking for help and I really don't want any unnecessary criticism or unnecessary questions, as it is pointless and I am already watching a beautiful life drift away. I just really want to know if anyone has an opinion on the matter that could put me at ease.
Thank you for those who reply, your kindness and time is greatly appreciated.
This is the plight of many wild caught reptiles and it breaks my heart.
 
Kristen I know it must be hard to make this decision and no one can make it for you. If I were in your shoes, I would euthanize and here is why. She is not living a quality life and it's only a matter of hours, days or weeks. I would make her as comfortable as you can, say your goodbyes and let her go with some comfort. Otherwise how would it be to wake up in the morning to see her gone knowing you didn't get to say goodbye. My heart goes out to you for your courage.
 
Thanks Donna, I think you are right. It is just so difficult to euthanize an animal that is such a fighter. I just hate the people that put her through what they did to cause this.
 
Thanks Donna, I think you are right. It is just so difficult to euthanize an animal that is such a fighter. I just hate the people that put her through what they did to cause this.

Yes it is sad but it is what it is. Think about for a day or so and look into her eyes, she'll tell you what is best.
 
I am for euthanizing in this case.

Can you tell us what tests were done to diagnose her issues? Morphine? Wow. Is she recently WC? Over/under supplemented? Interesting. Is the Vet experienced with chamelons (not just reptiles)?
 
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I have been in your positon before, not with a cham (although I lost my Lily last year), but with a sugar glider. It is the toughest decision that you can ever make, and ultimately it's the kindest one too. It just hurts to know that the best decision for them is the worst one for you. I am thinking of you, with whatever you decide to do.
 
I am for euthanizing in this case.

Can you tell us what tests were done to diagnose her issues? Morphine? Wow. Is she recently WC? Over/under supplemented? Interesting. Is the Vet experienced with chamelons (not just reptiles)?

Radiographs, CBC, full blood panel to check for liver and pancreatic enzymes, amylase, lipase, trypsin, ALT, AST, ALP, albumin, bilirubin, stool trypsin test, glucose, urea, creatining, BUN, uric acid, etc. I haven't looked at the results myself yet, maybe more or less was done, you can only do so much with the amount of blood given. Immunoreactive trypsinogen and a comprehensive metabolic panel was not done because I didn't want to exsanguinate her and apparently not needed when the panel itself indicates obvious failure.
We are very competent with all reptiles at our clinic, as are the labs where we send our samples to. I'm not sure of a vet in Minnesota that is experienced with chameleons more than other reptiles, I would be interested in talking with them if there is one.
I'm guessing the starvation and dehydration and stress she probably experienced at the holding facilities in which she was housed in foreign countries and the U.S. probably contributed more to her condition than anything else.
 
I really sympathize with you and with her! She has obviously found a very loving home with you. Here's how I would approach the decision, but I suspect you are already there:

If she was able to keep herself hydrated without the stress of sub Q fluids and wasn't on morphine I would leave the time up to her.

As she cannot do without these 2 interventions that cause some pain/stress, I think I would euthanize her to save her from the discomfort they obviously are masking.

The image of her resting on her pillow brought the tears I must say. Melleri are such wonderful chams. When they are "nice" they are amazingly so. Could I ask for a picture of her? I'd love to see her watching out her window on her pillow.

Good luck and peace to both of you.
 
Radiographs, CBC, full blood panel to check for liver and pancreatic enzymes, amylase, lipase, trypsin, ALT, AST, ALP, albumin, bilirubin, stool trypsin test, glucose, urea, creatining, BUN, uric acid, etc. I haven't looked at the results myself yet, maybe more or less was done, you can only do so much with the amount of blood given. Immunoreactive trypsinogen and a comprehensive metabolic panel was not done because I didn't want to exsanguinate her and apparently not needed when the panel itself indicates obvious failure.
We are very competent with all reptiles at our clinic, as are the labs where we send our samples to. I'm not sure of a vet in Minnesota that is experienced with chameleons more than other reptiles, I would be interested in talking with them if there is one.
I'm guessing the starvation and dehydration and stress she probably experienced at the holding facilities in which she was housed in foreign countries and the U.S. probably contributed more to her condition than anything else.

Many problems are caused by dehydration in transport, and then not being acclimated properly can easily finish a Mellers off. Mellers are one of the most sensitive chameleons so it is easy to tip the scale negatively. When running tests such as the ones that were run, some of course would probably pertain to reptiles accross the board, but then some I would question the Vet as to what baseline they were using. Morphine alone I would imagine would cause more issues than it would help. Vets that are not knowledgeable about chameleons often do more harm than good. I do not know your Vet and I am not questioning your judgement-just trying to get facts.
This is most likely caused by being WC, and then exaggerated by the person that had the animal prior to yourself. Prior to the subQ fluids and morphine, how was the animal acting? How were you watering? Temps? Food? Supplements?
 
Thank you for the kind works
I have stopped with the SubQ fluids, I refuse to cause any pain. I agree with all of you.
I tried uploading the picture, let me see if it works when I post it, otherwise I will eventually figure it out...
 

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I think a near death Mellers would look far worse that the one you have there. I would stop all treatment, and see if the animal can sustain itself with 4 mistings a day, a basking spot around 80, and some good feeders like Silks or Horns. Has it tried to eat at all on it's own?

If that is a recent pic the animal is showing no signs of dehydration.
 
I agree with everyone that has replied. Everyone has good points and views about this situation. I would do what has already been suggested if I were you which is stop all treatment and see if your cham can survive on its own. If it cant survive.... it just might be its time. I know its a hard decision and I wouldnt want to let me cham go any more than you do but ultimately it just might be the nicest thing you can do. I know my reply didnt say anything that hasnt already been said but I feel for you and your cham. Best of luck!
 
I think a near death Mellers would look far worse that the one you have there. I would stop all treatment, and see if the animal can sustain itself with 4 mistings a day, a basking spot around 80, and some good feeders like Silks or Horns. Has it tried to eat at all on it's own?

I appreciate your concern, I really do and thank you for it, but your questions are kind of making me chuckle because you are assuming I don't understand husbandry, which I understand you thinking that because there are many novices that come to this site and I applaud you for taking your time to help people out. I have done everything you have just said. She is mainly being given horns and silks due to ease of digestion. The reason she looks good is because of the "treatments" I have been giving, and if I stopped all the treatments, she would look like a "near death Meller's" because she is not eating on her own, she drinks when I mist her 5-10 times a day, but if her renal portal system is dysfunctional, and she is not able to absorb water from her damaged SI, she is going to need a great amount of fluid to compensate, if I put her under a 80+ degree basking light she would eventually overheat because she cannot move on her own to get out of it, she can only tip her body in one way or another to get into our out of the shade when outside. My "treatments" and her will to live are what is keeping her alive. I carry her around on a pillow to different temperatures depending on when she starts wobbling back and forth obviously acting as though she needs a change. You cannot look at a picture and understand the state of internal deterioration.
 
My veterinarian and I beg to differ. Sunken eye turrets, which you cannot see in the picture, are a key indicator of dehydration.

Yes-hard to see in the pic. And near death Mellers take on a gray color. Glad you are offering her the best of support. And sorry that you have to go through this.
 
Yes-hard to see in the pic. And near death Mellers take on a gray color. Glad you are offering her the best of support. And sorry that you have to go through this.

You are right, that is EXACTLY why I am having a problem with this... because she isn't gray/white and her colors look great. I know that sounds silly to those who have never had Meller's and don't understand their stress coloration, but the colors in the picture are her prevalent colors, and that is what is making the decision to euthanize so difficult. She just seems comfortable, but there is no way she can be. She can't even hold her head up.

I am going to go on VIN (veterinary information network) where there are amazing vets from all over the country, even the world, and maybe they may have some insight. As far as her color, when she does turn gray, it isn't a question... I will euthanize. I will see what vets that specialize in chameleons say, and if they agree to euthanize based on the test results compared to baselines they are comfortable with, I will do so.

Thank you to everyone for caring about her and for the input... we'll see.
 
In that pic she looks really swollen and big and since you do refer to her as a female, have you checked to see if she is carrying eggs? Or could the swollen look be due to the SubQ fluids you are injecting?
 
In that pic she looks really swollen and big and since you do refer to her as a female, have you checked to see if she is carrying eggs? Or could the swollen look be due to the SubQ fluids you are injecting?

That's very perceptive to see that from that hazy picture! No, she's been x-rayed, she has fluid build-up in her lower coelomic cavity from, most commonly liver disease, but it could be due to other organ failure as well. She has no fluid in her lungs though thankfully, so she is not having difficulty breathing.
 
That's very perceptive to see that from that hazy picture! No, she's been x-rayed, she has fluid build-up in her lower coelomic cavity from, most commonly liver disease, but it could be due to other organ failure as well. She has no fluid in her lungs though thankfully, so she is not having difficulty breathing.

I try to learn everything I can from health issues posted and I lost a melleri 12-29-09 and just got over it. They indeed are special.
 
I try to learn everything I can from health issues posted and I lost a melleri 12-29-09 and just got over it. They indeed are special.

I'm very sorry to hear that. They are very special, there is something about them. All chameleons are special in their own way, but I just love Mellers, and I haven't had this one for very long, but I can see it. And when you said to look into her eyes and I'll know, you are very right about that. I think I'm the one being selfish by prolonging it. As you know, and as Juli pointed out, she is such a good color which is making it difficult. I will let you know if I hear from different vets and what they say. What happened with your Melleri?
 
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