to many online critics, no need for it

[fluxlizard]

I seriously get a kick out of some of the posts on this forum.

All the comments and feedback are entertaining, enlightening, informative, hysterical, and so on.

I wish there were "like" buttons on comments. or "helpful"

There are. That is why you have a green box below your name. Click on the tiny measuring scales icon in the upper right corner of the post. That will add to the reputation of the poster and the tally comes up as the little green boxes. Comments you leave when doing this appear on the user's control panel.

 

[SCharton74]

Well said. I have found some people on here extremely nice and helpful. I have found some with attitudes who only want to be the chameleon expert. I MOSTLY find the helpful sort.

The interesting thing is that I have read several different care sheets about my various chams and they are usually MOSTLY the same but not always. That is to say, not everybody has the exact same way to deal with cham problems. Some will have experience with SOME of what you're dealing with but not all.

I'll offer a friendly piece of advice. If you want to avoid a million questions, try posting your question along with CLEAR pictures. When I see people asking tons of questions, it is usually followed by a request for pictures. That will help the experts better see how to ask the most appropriate questions so that they can give you the best advice.

Also, general internet advice - you can't function in a medium with no inflection and be so sensitive. Snarky attitudes on the internet breed more snarky attitudes. Someone in this thread mentioned taking a step back and putting on some humility. I HIGHLY recommend that. Remember, you are talking to MANY experts in this forum who are donating their time and experience to you for free.

All the best and welcome to your new addiction,
Shawn

I can relate to your frustration, I got off to a rocky start on one post but took a step back to evaluate how I interact with this forum, took a piece of humility and asked myself what it was I wanted from this experience.

As stated, this about one of the best resources out there and we all come from different backgrounds and experience levels...

Post responses may be short, or only address part of your question; someone may only have input on pieces of a question. In some cases you'll have to take pieces and see if they can be applied, and in other cases you may have to go on your best judgement if you are not satisfied with replies, or lack there of.

Give it some time, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised once you find your nitch here. It truly is a continuous learning experience...at least for me.

 

[ChamFreak]

maybe its just me but I found it funny when people say they have done there research and then ask very basic questions. search button is your friend.

also, glass cages can be a very bad thing. think for a second.. 90 degrees, humidity and closed environment.. = mold

+1 for petsmart ftw lol

 

[Mike Fisher]

When getting advice, please take into consideration the experience of the member giving the advice. At the top of the response there is a green bar graph and a join date for the forum. If a member only has one or two dots there and a recent membership, they might be an experienced keeper new to the forum, but most likely not.

Anyway, when an experienced member gives advice, step back and look at it that advice from a distance. It is easy to take advice as criticism when your ego gets involved, so try to take ego out of the equation and take a close look at what you are doing. As in "What could I be doing better?"

Some of these people have been keeping and breeding chameleons for forty or fifty years and come off gruff and grouchy at times because they've seen a lot of animal abuse and dead chameleons over the years. They may not be very tolerant of new keepers who think they know a lot because they did some research for a few days.

In the end, they might hurt your ego, but they really care about your chameleon, so get over it. It's not like you have to share a turkey dinner with them.

Please stick around and become part of this community. You will find that some of these grouchy curmudgeons are really great!

 

[ZiggyStardust]

When getting advice, please take into consideration the experience of the member giving the advice. At the top of the response there is a green bar graph and a join date for the forum. If a member only has one or two dots there and a recent membership, they might be an experienced keeper new to the forum, but most likely not.

Anyway, when an experienced member gives advice, step back and look at it that advice from a distance. It is easy to take advice as criticism when your ego gets involved, so try to take ego out of the equation and take a close look at what you are doing. As in "What could I be doing better?"

Some of these people have been keeping and breeding chameleons for forty or fifty years and come off gruff and grouchy at times because they've seen a lot of animal abuse and dead chameleons over the years. They may not be very tolerant of new keepers who think they know a lot because they did some research for a few days.

In the end, they might hurt your ego, but they really care about your chameleon, so get over it. It's not like you have to share a turkey dinner with them.

Please stick around and become part of this community. You will find that some of these grouchy curmudgeons are really great!

Superb post Mike.

 

[Kath44]

I agree, great post mike.
Too many online critics??? 3 members replied.
As one who replied to your previous post, I am a little confused :/ and as I have just revisited said post and re-read my replies I fail to see where I was being an 'online critic'. Neither anybody else that took time to reply to you. All I see is members engaging in your post and trying to answer what you asked to the best of their ability and experience.
If you felt I was being a critic, there is a message option to point that out to me and not write a whole post with, to me, a clear intention on getting peoples backs up.
I am not annoyed with you, if I've helped I'm glad, if not, just keep asking away. You cannot get better advice, experience, information, support etc etc from this forum.

Kath.

 

[Maximillion]

Boo

I would have lost my Max if it wasn't for the great people on this site. I listened and heeded each and everyone who tried and succeeded in helping me save my Max. These people truly love and care properly for their chams and a newby has no reason for any negative comment regarding their help. I hope they are there for you if you ever need them again for your chams sake.

 

[Chiichan]

There are. That is why you have a green box below your name. Click on the tiny measuring scales icon in the upper right corner of the post. That will add to the reputation of the poster and the tally comes up as the little green boxes. Comments you leave when doing this appear on the user's control panel.

Oh! Well thank you for letting me know!

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Excuse me but your answers are come off very rude and offensive. We are a community here to support each other. This attitude is not appropriate--especially here. This should be our "safe space." Let's play nice (and mature.)

If you think CarlC is coming off rude try me and I don't even know that guy. . His statement was valid and I didn't take it as rude, however perspective is a pain in the rear when using text to communicate.


As for the subject at hand, it has been shown time and time again that that just because somebody says they know what they are doing doesn't mean they actually do. However asking for help is the first step in getting to the point where a person does know something.


In order to receive that help, a person giving the help is GOING to ask you questions in order to properly assess the problem and see if they can provide any information. Assumptions with chameleons equal dead chameleons. So it is best not to make an assumption and I would ask you multiple questions. If you are that easily offended then you won't learn anything if only because people won't take the time to type a response to your questions.

Seeing your initial post and topic at first made me not even want to respond to you. Who am I that maybe you might need a little help from? I am nobody, just a guy who has kept chameleons for about 40 years going all the way back to when the Tetra Press books were all we had to read from. you know, the one's that had an anole lizard on the cover.

This forum is hands down the most incredible tool to keeping our animals alive. Back when I started keeping chameleons I couldn't even find others keeping them to talk to. I ended up meeting people at my pet store to chat with. I had to visit a <Gasp!> public library and research what I could about the places these animals came from to try and intelligently recreate their habitat needs. THAT was research. Petsmart is anything but.

This website is the best source of chameleon keepers and breeders on the planet. Overall people do play nice here. I'm playing nice now...

 

[zlew]

Well said, although this thread is unnecessary. CarlC's response is slightly pointed due to the rude nature of the original complaint. There was no criticism in the original post made to ask for help, his questions were answered directly AND he was given extra information in case it wasn't just normal settling in stress. Being prepared and knowing how to solve the problems are what you need, and he got both the knowledge and the prerequisite information to being prepared. Jeez, you peeps need ta simma down. Carl's response was totally appropriate, as were the responses of all the people taking a guarded approach to this thread, considering you making un-based insults about people trying to help you when you asked for it.

 

[fluxlizard]

etra Press books were all we had to read from. you know, the one's that had an anole lizard on the cover.

I still keep this book for nostalgia's sake!

I didn't keep chameleons until the 90s though. That book succeeded in discouraging me away from them. But did keep anoles in those days.

 

[kdc5019]

The beautiful thing about forums is if you don't like the advice your being given you can always leave.

Carl

Spot on.

This post had me curious, so I went back to look at your original post. There was nothing wrong about what the responses were from the people who replied.

Remember knowledge is power especially when it comes to caring for exotic reptiles. Just because you read a care sheet doesnt mean your an expert and know how to care for your chameleon. People with years of experience know more little Nuances about Care than you could imagine. So take these comments as more experienced people trying to help. Without asking questions how can we help you??

Take a step back and realize no one was critisizing you, we were all just trying to help you.

 

[Decadancin]

NO NO, am not saying this was bad advice, and also my question was never answered, I know it seems like i saying bad but I think it more like constructive criticism, there is a perfect way to keep all animals but not every way is practical, am just saying lets try to help every one

I wasn't going to post a reply in this thread, but after looking at your original question I wondered how I would have answered it.

First you say that your question wasn't answered...

LilBlue says...

Congrats on your new pet, you're gonna love him!I would have said Welcome to the forums and Congrats on your new addition!

Chams will take a bit to settle in, usually about a week until they get in to your routine. That's great that he is eating, his appetite will increase when he is comfy(babies eat lots, remember to make sure food items are a suitable size, not bigger than the space between the eyes, and that there are not lots running around after he is full). Hydration is the most important thing when bringing home any chameleon.
I would also have stated that there is usually some adjusting to a new environment and to ensure the enclosure is not in a high traffic area. I also would have commended you on having the set up going for a few days to make sure that things were ready for your new friend. That's more than I did when I first brought home my boy

Give him time, don't handle him at all. If he still isn't eating or drinking enough, fill out the "How to ask for help" sticky, it is in the health forum(I believe).
I would have also added the link...https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

I would have asked for some info on what your temps are, how you are measuring them and what lighting you are using. I would want to be sure you are providing the right conditions for success! LilBlue did answer your question very well in my opinion, but often others will chime in with other suggestions to help out if they can.

Please remember that this is a forum filled with personalities, from all over the globe, that are here to help out if they can. Don't take any of the posts personally as if you are being attacked. These members are not being "critics" of you, but of your condition that you posted about. That is how problems are identified and huge vet bills (or worse) are avoided.



I read every post in your original thread and can't see why you think people are being critics???

The only other thing I would have added is that if you could post some pictures of him and his enclosure we could see if there is anything else that could be causing the issue. I hope you continue to research and have tremendous success with your new chameleon, and I hope we can see some pictures! (we love that )

...and of course, Welcome to the forums!

 

[Jxbzy]

the forums are very critical ive limited my posting due to that fact but they are there for the best. everyone just needs the whole picture painted for them as far as a setup goes before they want to give advice from what it seems.

 

[kinyonga]

It's not that we WANT he whole story before giving advice...its that we NEED the whole story if you want proper/correct advice. If we don't have enough information we can't tell you what's wrong.

For instance... if someone says my chameleon misses the insects with his tongue....with that little bit of information how can we know if it's because the owner isn't supplementing it properly...or the chameleon has injured its tongue...or the chameleon's tongue is infected...or the chameleon is dehydrated. How do we know if it misses because the tongue won't shoot out all the way or the chameleon shoots to the side or the tongue just isn't grasping the insect?

Just like when you go to the doctor, s/he has to ask you questions to determine what's wrong so do we. We could just list all the possibilities but that wouldn't really give the person the most likely reason for the issue or suggest how to fix it.

Another example...If the person says..my chameleon is gaping...how do we know without more information if it's because it has an RI or because it has organ failure and is dying or if it's simply too hot or if it's annoyed with something?

If people want the best answer we have then they need to give us the most information they can.

One more thing...those of us who do take the time to try to help those with questions or problems with their chameleons do it for the good of the chameleon's and to help people learn how to keep their chameleons healthy so they live good long lives. We do it for free and in our spare time.

 

[Lathis]

everyone just needs the whole picture painted for them as far as a setup goes before they want to give advice from what it seems.

This isn't a bad thing, and it's certainly not intended to be critical.

One thing I have learned from the folks here with decades of experience keeping chameleons is that while there are "rules of thumb" to help you keep your chameleon healthy and happy - information that is available on the caresheets, chameleons are very subtle animals. It can take only a very minor issue to make a major impact on a chameleons health. Since chameleons are masters at concealing illness until it's serious, having the whole picture is really critical to figuring out the underlying cause.

Runny feces? Classic symptom of parasites... or you just feed a lot of hornworms.
Lethargic? URI... or temperatures are a bit too hot... or a bit too cold.
Eyes closed? Early sign of sickness... or the lights are too bright.

You get the idea. It's rarely a one issue = specific problem kind of thing.

Having all the information upfront prevents us asking a million questions and helps the poster get helpful information quicker. That's the whole reason the "How to Ask For Help" was put together in the first place. And sometimes, recommending a vet visit is the only thing that we can do.

Try to remember that the Forum gets dozens of posts every week from new members. Some are really experienced, some have done a lot of good research, some have been misinformed by pet stores or the internet, some have not done any homework, and unfortunately some are willfully stupid despite being given good info. We try to help anyone as much as we can, but they have to help us too.

Really long post. All in all, I am so happy to have found CF. The people here are great. They wouldn't be volunteering their personal time if they didn't care.

 

[vgaines]

I have been a member for a little while now and I LOVE this forum and the other members. I have had a few people get a little critical and a little rude but thats to be expected with such a large number of members. I have found that most times when I feel like someone is being a little too blunt I am being a little sensitive because I am really worried about my cham. Give us a chance and you will see that the majority of the members really care about all chameleons and want to make sure that they are getting the proper care. I am a paranoid cham mom and so many times I have been reassured that everything will be ok or given good advice on what I need to change. I follow the advice given and it has always been a good thing. Welcome to the forum. You will learn so much..I promise

 

[SaintJimmy]

the forums are very critical ive limited my posting due to that fact but they are there for the best. everyone just needs the whole picture painted for them as far as a setup goes before they want to give advice from what it seems.

90% of the time, everyone here has been helpful from the beginning of my membership here. I find that people are not critical, unless you refuse to change something bad about your husbandry or just plain out refuse to listen to advice, then people get critical.

Also, for some, we *need* to know the whole picture before giving advice. We can't go making false diagnoses.

It's not that we WANT he whole story before giving advice...its that we NEED the whole story if you want proper/correct advice. If we don't have enough information we can't tell you what's wrong.

For instance... if someone says my chameleon misses the insects with his tongue....with that little bit of information how can we know if it's because the owner isn't supplementing it properly...or the chameleon has injured its tongue...or the chameleon's tongue is infected...or the chameleon is dehydrated. How do we know if it misses because the tongue won't shoot out all the way or the chameleon shoots to the side or the tongue just isn't grasping the insect?

Just like when you go to the doctor, s/he has to ask you questions to determine what's wrong so do we. We could just list all the possibilities but that wouldn't really give the person the most likely reason for the issue or suggest how to fix it.

Another example...If the person says..my chameleon is gaping...how do we know without more information if it's because it has an RI or because it has organ failure and is dying or if it's simply too hot or if it's annoyed with something?

If people want the best answer we have then they need to give us the most information they can.

One more thing...those of us who do take the time to try to help those with questions or problems with their chameleons do it for the good of the chameleon's and to help people learn how to keep their chameleons healthy so they live good long lives. We do it for free and in our spare time.

(The quote above is a good example of why some need the whole picture before giving simple advice. Misdiagnosing something that is wrong with your chameleon can lead to bad assumptions being made by the owner)

This isn't a bad thing, and it's certainly not intended to be critical.

One thing I have learned from the folks here with decades of experience keeping chameleons is that while there are "rules of thumb" to help you keep your chameleon healthy and happy - information that is available on the caresheets, chameleons are very subtle animals. It can take only a very minor issue to make a major impact on a chameleons health. Since chameleons are masters at concealing illness until it's serious, having the whole picture is really critical to figuring out the underlying cause.

Runny feces? Classic symptom of parasites... or you just feed a lot of hornworms.
Lethargic? URI... or temperatures are a bit too hot... or a bit too cold.
Eyes closed? Early sign of sickness... or the lights are too bright.

You get the idea. It's rarely a one issue = specific problem kind of thing.

Having all the information upfront prevents us asking a million questions and helps the poster get helpful information quicker. That's the whole reason the "How to Ask For Help" was put together in the first place. And sometimes, recommending a vet visit is the only thing that we can do.

Try to remember that the Forum gets dozens of posts every week from new members. Some are really experienced, some have done a lot of good research, some have been misinformed by pet stores or the internet, some have not done any homework, and unfortunately some are willfully stupid despite being given good info. We try to help anyone as much as we can, but they have to help us too.

Really long post. All in all, I am so happy to have found CF. The people here are great. They wouldn't be volunteering their personal time if they didn't care.

I agree with this also. New posts every single day or week. You'd think we would get tired of happily giving advice, but we don't. We keep giving friendly basic advice because we don't want the chameleons to die, and we want new owners not to be discouraged from the hobby. It's simply necessary.

I have been a member for a little while now and I LOVE this forum and the other members. I have had a few people get a little critical and a little rude but thats to be expected with such a large number of members. I have found that most times when I feel like someone is being a little too blunt I am being a little sensitive because I am really worried about my cham. Give us a chance and you will see that the majority of the members really care about all chameleons and want to make sure that they are getting the proper care. I am a paranoid cham mom and so many times I have been reassured that everything will be ok or given good advice on what I need to change. I follow the advice given and it has always been a good thing. Welcome to the forum. You will learn so much..I promise

Yes, I also agree with this as well. Only a small amount of people have been critical that I notice. Many are very helpful and will put down/report anyone who is overly critical or is in the wrong!

 

[shaneofall]

maybe its just me but I found it funny when people say they have done there research and then ask very basic questions. search button is your friend.

also, glass cages can be a very bad thing. think for a second.. 90 degrees, humidity and closed environment.. = mold

+1 for petsmart ftw lol

This is common in the Chameleon world, but the answers can always get deeper and more complex. The common answers need to always be re-evaluated. I say keep asking the basic questions even as experts. When you really look at it, the only things people are having any success with are the really easy species, that are prolific in the wild under a wide habitat range.

As for the post, I do agree, the community needs to lighten up. I really like this forum and love Chameleons, but there are always those who are less than inviting and tend to make newbies feel stupid, even if they have a good background on the subject. I also found, after being a reptile keeper for over 30 years; each forum, group and/or group of reptile keepers has some bias way of thinking that grew from that community, and many times the "experts" in the group rarely have a valid or true explanation for the reason other than it being regurgitated info.

 

[xraygirl]

This forum has a wonderful source of experienced keepers as well as amazing vets that treat chameleons everyday, and own their own at home. Those people spend their time on here, answering and giving advice. How many vets do you know of, that have this type of specialty, that will use their free time (if they ever get any) to get on this forum and help some fellow cham owners, either new or experienced, out? Not many!

What is frustrating is people who say they did their research, end up coming on here, saying that they 'have been stalking the forums for a while', but run out and purchase this little green creature, but still have so many basic questions unanswered. No idea on cage set up, misting, temperatures, UVB lighting, supplementing, etc...

Now, I've only had my little dude for almost a year now. So, I'm a newbie myself, I'm not calling myself an expert by NO means.... But I know the very basics, and I had it all down pat before I purchased my cham. I was on this forum night and freakin' day for 4 months straight before I bought a chameleon. Literally, any free second I had, I was on here. I learned so much about lighting, temperatures, supplementation (plus schedules), common health problems, gut loading, feeders, watering, etc, etc....

It aggravates me when so many people claim they have been reading through the forums for "a while now", but don't understand what MBD is. Now this little green creature they bought at the pet store "has a basking light, a red bulb at night, misted twice a day for 5 seconds, and eats 2 crickets every other day... but my cham is sick/sleeping during the day/etc..."

There are other forums that are incredibly harsher than this one. I was a member of one for my car (like this one, looking for advice, questions on issues, etc) and BOY..... if you didn't search for your topic first, before creating a new thread, they RIPPED you apart. That's one of the reasons why I rarely frequent the site anymore. I come here almost everyday. I give these folks major credit, they give thorough advice day in and day out, on the SAME exact questions that are posted every single day by people..... and they don't ever get nasty. For instance, anytime a newbie comes on the site saying they are wanting to learn... or just got a cham, you know who's the first person to reply?! JANN!! And she ALWAYS provides her wonderful blogs on the post for the OP to directly see them. EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Seriously, it's heart and dedication.

So when you're offended, try to think how you would answer someones questions. If I came to you and said "my car won't crank", you'd probably say something along the lines of, "did you check the battery?" And I would be so offended that I would be given such a short and rude answer... but I didn't mention any other details of what I'm seeing or hearing when I can't get my car to crank. Like, "it makes this terrible buzzy/clicky like noise when I turn the key"... (starter?)

Knowing every bit of husbandry detail is so key here. No one is here to make you angry and deter you from being on the forums.... We just want details, so that we can give you detailed answers. 99% of the time someone will post the link to get to the sticky form on "HOW TO ASK FOR HELP" and it's a GREAT tool for people to copy and paste, fill out the answers, and see what everyone says... I have this form filled out for my vet anytime I take my guy in! And they LOVE it!

So chillax, eat a snickers and enjoy this forum!