Tongue issue

[RobertSopko]

Hello to everyone, my chameleon 1,5 years has problem with tongue. Recently we have noticed that it shoots to a distance of about 3 cm. The tongue does not seem to be injured rather the muscle is flaccid. Can anyone advise what can cause this?
Terrarium size 60x45x90 , Temperatures (bulb 50W) under heat during the day 29-30 °C and from 9:00 till 15:00 , Arcadia jungle Dawn LED bar from 08:00 till 19:00 , UVB Arcadia PRO T5 UVB 6% 24w from 08:00 till 19:00. Humidity during the day aprox. 35-40% during the night 60%. Feeding only crickets one per day with vitamins (arcadia system) A,A,A,C,A,A,A,D3..... UVB is in distance 30cm from chameleon.

 

[RobertSopko]

photos

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Your uvb is a bit too far away for your guy to be getting optimal levels. It should be around 20 cm between basking branch and uvb. I understand and appreciate why you have one end of the uvb elevated, but I would keep it flat on top of the enclosure and by having the basking branches at different levels, he can choose his exposure that way. Also, when did you last change your uvb bulb? While I believe you’re using the Arcadia supplement trio correctly, I am wondering if he is getting adequate amounts of it. I’m guessing you’re feeding large crickets. I suggest giving him more of a variety of feeders that have been well cared for to provide maximum nutrition. Instead of giving just one large feeder daily, try giving him 3-4 med to med/lg feeders (or equivalent) either every other day or 3 days a week (plus one treat day). Besides it giving him a bit more enrichment and enjoyment (for lack of a better word) while eating, he’ll have more bugs to transfer nutrition and the supplements to him.
While not really related to his tongue issue, he does definitely need a larger enclosure. The minimum size he should be in is 90x90x120 cm and if you can go even larger than that, he will use all of the space. This is what I do and encourage others to do if they are able. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ With larger space, you can provide better gradients of temperature and humidity, more live plants to increase his humidity up to the ideal 50-70% range during the day and lots more branches and vines for him to travel all over on. Since you’re using metric measurement, I assume you aren’t in the US, so unfortunately aren’t able to get these shipped to you if you switch to a screened enclosure. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Several members have made their own versions using sheet metal or wood. I’m not that handy and had to use scrap garden trellis when I didn’t have time to order some Dragon Ledges. It’s worked so well, that I’ve bought a panel and am using it to set up new enclosures. However you do it, you need to make sure that the frame bears the weight.
Returning to your guy’s tongue, are you sure of his age? I’m finding with my oldest chameleon (5 yrs old) that she has stopped shooting her tongue far and gets close to her food before then grabbing it with her tongue. I don’t see a feeding station in the enclosure. Adding one will help ensure that he is able to catch his food. Definitely never use tongs to offer food. There’s always the risk that we can’t release as quick as they grab and their tongue can get pulled (like a muscle injury). Some chameleons have had such severe injury from just one time that they ended up losing their entire tongue.
I hope I’ve been of some help.

 

[naterowley]

Hi Robert looks like you’re using Arcadia schedule of feeding and what you’re marking as “D3” seems to be the regular calcium without bee pollen and not the their revitaliseD3 that is recommended on the insectivore schedule you’re feeding

Here is a link to their D3 product

https://www.arcadiareptile.com/earthpro/supplements/revitalised3/

I also screenshotted the schedule you’re using from their site for chameleons. Which you are following. Seems that you just have the Ca and D3 supplements confused since their website doesn’t have a button for the D3 when you go to earth pro line.

With @MissSkittles suggestion for UVB distance and the non D3 in supplements that could be the cause. Reading other threads and hearing of other’s experiences getting the UVB and D3 straightened out will definitely assist in making your scaly friend happy with their tongue again.

I spent way too much time trying to get a handle on Arcadia’s schedule and now I get to finally use it helping someone else! I did try and triple check and I can’t find any mention of D3 in the Ca supplement and the major diff from the Ca and A is that “A” is Ca along with multivitamins which is the recommended daily supplement

You got this!

Personally I use EarthPro A every feeding and then twice a month I use Repashy Calcium Plus LoD, on the 1st and 15th.

I started with the Arcadia supplement and insectivore schedule but for troubleshooting a separate issue I switched to my current schedule as it was closer to what my panther was on with their previous owner and I was trying to rule out any possible variables

Hope this helps!

 

[RobertSopko]

Hello together, firstly thanks for your feedback. Regarding D3 I didn't send the right photo. I have this one and use them like you can see in paper. UVB BULB I exchanged 18 January for a new one but the old one was the same and was laid on the wire (distance from chameleon cca 15cm). I think is dangerous for him. Do you think that i should simple let it to be left lying on top without a pad?

 

[RobertSopko]

here D3

 

[RobertSopko]

the old BULB was 10 months old

 

[RobertSopko]

now i tried to shorted distance to 20cm i hope it will be not dangerous

 

[MissSkittles]

now i tried to shorted distance to 20cm i hope it will be not dangerous

No, i assure you it’s perfect. Using a T5 fixture with a 6% uvb bulb, at a distance of 8-9” (20-22 cm) you will get a uv index of around 3.0, which is what your guy needs. It does drop off quicker than you’d think to lower levels. This is a great resource for panther husbandry standards if you’d like to double check your care and it will give you some reassurance about the uvb distance. https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/

 

[Beman]

Feeding only crickets one per day with vitamins (arcadia system) A,A,A,C,A,A,A,D3

So with Arcadia supplements their revitalizeD3 has extremely low levels of D3 and vitamin A. Vitamin A is linked with tongue function. If he were mine I would go ahead and get repashy Calcium plus LoD version. Give this instead of the revitalizeD3. You will give it two times a month say the 1st and the 15th. If the tongue is having issues due to lack of Vitamin A you should see an improvement gradually over the next few months using the repashy with higher levels of A and D3. This supplement is safe to use and is one of the most commonly used in the hobby for the multivitamin as it has everything in one with levels that are safe for a chameleon 2 times a month.

now i tried to shorted distance to 20cm i hope it will be not dangerous

It will not be. This will put the cham in a 3 uvi which is what they need for proper D3 synthesis.

 

[RobertSopko]

So with Arcadia supplements their revitalizeD3 has extremely low levels of D3 and vitamin A. Vitamin A is linked with tongue function. If he were mine I would go ahead and get repashy Calcium plus LoD version. Give this instead of the revitalizeD3. You will give it two times a month say the 1st and the 15th. If the tongue is having issues due to lack of Vitamin A you should see an improvement gradually over the next few months using the repashy with higher levels of A and D3. This supplement is safe to use and is one of the most commonly used in the hobby for the multivitamin as it has everything in one with levels that are safe for a chameleon 2 times a month.

It will not be. This will put the cham in a 3 uvi which is what they need for proper D3 synthesis.

Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately in my country there is no possible to order repashy Calcium LoD (Slovakia). What if I gave him every fourth day, in addition to C and D3, another cricket coated in vitamin A ?

 

[Beman]

Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately in my country there is no possible to order repashy Calcium LoD (Slovakia). What if I gave him every fourth day, in addition to C and D3, another cricket coated in vitamin A ?

Do you only feed 1 insect a day? How many do you feed in a day and how many days a week are you feeding?

 

[RobertSopko]

Do you only feed 1 insect a day? How many do you feed in a day and how many days a week are you feeding?

one cricket every day

 

[Beman]

one cricket every day

May I see a few more pics of your chameleon? 1 cricket everyday really is not a lot. I just want to be able to see what his body mass and tone is.

 

[RobertSopko]

photo

 

[Beman]

So he is a little on the thinner side. I would take him to every other day feedings of 3-5 insects.

Per the multivitamin being the revitalizeD3. You could give this at 1 feeding every week due to it being such low levels of D3 and A. Keep in mind you want to always dust all feeders that day with the supplement of that day.