Tongue not shooting / mobility issues / slipping

[jamest0o0]

Surprised everyone here is just brushing over the parasite issue. Have you had multiple fecals checked recently? Especially something like coccidia which could be present without symptoms in a young healthy chameleon, but take over in an older or compromised chameleon. Treating coccidia alone doesn't usually get rid of it without a strong deep cleaning with high heat or ammonia.

 

[jcarlsen]

Surprised everyone here is just brushing over the parasite issue. Have you had multiple fecals checked recently? Especially something like coccidia which could be present without symptoms in a young healthy chameleon, but take over in an older or compromised chameleon. Treating coccidia alone doesn't usually get rid of it without a strong deep cleaning with high heat or ammonia.

Yeah when he had cocchidia, I basically gutted the cage and replaced everything fresh. Most recent fecal was done this past summer and was clean.

 

[JacksJill]

Coccidia isn’t impossible to get rid of but you have to sacrifice any thing organic or porous to disinfect properly.

 

[Beman]

While I agree with the suggestions above there maybe another factor as well. The tongue has a muscle and hand feeding doesn’t use its entire range. I had a similar situation with one of mine. I added flying feeders to his diet and gradually his aim and range improved.

Wow I had no idea. I will stop handfeeding so much as well and let him hunt more. Thank you!

 

[jcarlsen]

Just wanted to post an update to the thread, things aren't going too well. I went to my usual vet which has been good, saw someone new, I guess the head honcho there and I did a 30 day course of anti-biotics, and now doing coccidia meds (I'm assuming Albon?) 5 days on and 5 days off. I mentioned the thought of him getting too much D3 and to my surprise he had said in his experience it's incredibly rare and to keep going with multivitamins with d3 at every feeding.

Jasper is still eating if food is in a very reachable area to him and his poops still look normal, but man he's struggling to walk around, especially turn around on a branch. He's slipping a lot and grabbing his legs a lot. Vet also said he doesn't have MBD, which I've seen people say is associated with leg grabbing.

My parameters are largely the same with the exception of misting. I've set my mistking to go for a 7.5 min session at the beginning and end of the day rather than any long sessions during the day and a few 30 second mists over night after reading Petr's post about the benefits of nighttime moisture vs misting while the hot lights are on. I'm feeling pretty worried about him still and thinking of asking another vet to take a look.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Just wanted to post an update to the thread, things aren't going too well. I went to my usual vet which has been good, saw someone new, I guess the head honcho there and I did a 30 day course of anti-biotics, and now doing coccidia meds (I'm assuming Albon?) 5 days on and 5 days off. I mentioned the thought of him getting too much D3 and to my surprise he had said in his experience it's incredibly rare and to keep going with multivitamins with d3 at every feeding.

Jasper is still eating if food is in a very reachable area to him and his poops still look normal, but man he's struggling to walk around, especially turn around on a branch. He's slipping a lot and grabbing his legs a lot. Vet also said he doesn't have MBD, which I've seen people say is associated with leg grabbing.

My parameters are largely the same with the exception of misting. I've set my mistking to go for a 7.5 min session at the beginning and end of the day rather than any long sessions during the day and a few 30 second mists over night after reading Petr's post about the benefits of nighttime moisture vs misting while the hot lights are on. I'm feeling pretty worried about him still and thinking of asking another vet to take a look.

Wondering if you are using a fogger say am hours ? The other thing has any of the meds been injections ?

 

[JacksJill]

How old are your supplements? Where have they been stored? Repashy Cal Plus has good amounts of both D3 & A so it shouldn't be a deficiency unless the fat soluble vitamins have gone rancid. Over doses are rare but only because most people fail to give any supplements and deficiency is sooo common.
Albon can be tough on their system so hydrate as much as you can.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

It’s a good idea to write the expiration date on the lid . Then it’s not over looked .

 

[snitz427]

Feeding only supers is the equivalent of only feeding your kids French fries.

But I love french fries…

 

[jcarlsen]

Wondering if you are using a fogger say am hours ? The other thing has any of the meds been injections ?

I used a fogger from 12-4am during the winter but have discontinued in lieu of a few 30 second mists overnight as the spring and humidity come in here.

Meds are all oral.

 

[jcarlsen]

How old are your supplements? Where have they been stored? Repashy Cal Plus has good amounts of both D3 & A so it shouldn't be a deficiency unless the fat soluble vitamins have gone rancid. Over doses are rare but only because most people fail to give any supplements and deficiency is sooo common.
Albon can be tough on their system so hydrate as much as you can.

Supplements are all good thru 2020 minimum. Will do with the extra hydration!

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I used a fogger from 12-4am during the winter but have discontinued in lieu of a few 30 second mists overnight as the spring and humidity come in here.

Meds are all oral.

I live on the cape . I completely understand the issue there . I red through fast and missed that , but then thought I saw on a post . I do same and have noticed a huge improvement .

 

[jcarlsen]

I live on the cape . I completely understand the issue there . I red through fast and missed that , but then thought I saw on a post . I do same and have noticed a huge improvement .

Since you're basically in my neck of the woods, do you struggle with humidity during the winter too? Our apartment has forced air heat and dries it up so fast. I run a whole room humidifier and run the fogger overnight. My cage is a screen cage, but I've covered a good portion of the side and back panels with plastic, but it's still rough going during those few months :./

 

[PeaceOfZen]

Hey, I am sorry that your buddy is not doing well. I see alot of people have chimed in with good advice, I agree you should

Replace the lights if you haven't yet, 10 months seems a bit long, I've always heard you need to get new bulbs at 6 months. I recently had to replace a uvb after just 4 months.

I think I read you live up north in MA, I'm not sure what the weather is there as of now, but if the sun is out and temps are above 75 I would let your baby out to get some real sunshine rays, even if only for 30 minutes.

I use repashy calcium plus too, and it is suppose to work like a multivitamin. Some people say they use it everyday, others say it's best to use it once a week, it does have d3 in it though, so if you are suspecting a overly high amount of d3, I would switch to a just calcium supplement (like zoo med repti calcium without d3, I ordered mine from Amazon for 7$. Its a big ass jar too.)
You stated you gut load with bug burgers, and also dust feeders with repashy calcium plus daily, so If it is a nutrient thing causing it, I'd say it's from TOO much, rather then not enough.

Maybe you could go a week without any supplements (as long as the vet said all the nutrient levels are stable, did you get a blood work done?) Or just use calcium without d3 only (not the repashy cal. Plus) and get your baby into the sun some, that way he will create his own d3 naturally and cannot overdose. Sometimes ones own body is the best remedy!!

Personally, I 100% stand behind the "being babied" theory. You know that horrifying saying from 40 year old virgin?? "IF YOU DONT USE IT, YOU LOOSE IT!!" While not being true for Male reproduction organs, it is very true for many, many other situations. Chameleon tongues being one. It could simply just be that he hasn't had to release his strongest muscle in full force for an extended period of time, so his tongue is just a bit rusty now. Keep putting feeders in that he has to hunt, and he will slowly regain his ability, and confidence!!

Okay, this is the key point to why I'm chiming in, and I wish I could say it wasn't sad, but the reality is 4 years is getting up there in terms of chameleon life span. Specifically ambilobe Panthers have a life span of 5- 7 years in top notch environments. Yes some go beyond 7 years, but a higher percentage falls on the lower end of the scale. I'm also under the impression your baby has been sick before, at least once with coccidia, but I vaguely recall reading he got sick more then once. Any illness takes a toll on a living creature, any and all living creatures. I have a bulldog that has been through alot in his life, got attacked by a dog and needed stitches, got shot in the head with a 38 hollow point by neighbor, consequently got lockjaw and had to have another surgery to remove his left mandible so his mouth could open, got in another dog fight when introduced to my brothers Male Irish setter, point being - every time hes got wounded, the vet verbally informed me everytime of the impact it has on life span. He is still very much a happy loving active dog (just has a unique face now [: ) but the stress causes excessive wear and tear on the body and soul.

It's kind of like, imagine that when we are born, we have a little life bar (like seen on videogames) This life bar is filled all the way up with energy, this is ALL the energy you get in your life time. from the moment you take your first breathe to every step you take, every blink, sneeze, every peanut m&m you chew, you are constantly loosing energy from your life bar at a slow steady rate. But say you fall and scrape your knee, a tiny bit more of your energy disappears. And then a year later you break your arm!! There goes another slither, a but more then when you scraped your knee, but far less then if you say get open heart surgery. You constantly loose energy at a steady rate, plus all the bursts of energy sucked from you each time you get sick or injured. If you suffer from any underlying long term illness, your daily rate of energy loss is doubled, maybe tripled. So as you can imagine, someone who has been in various accidents, had surgery after surgery, had the chicken pox, the flu, food poisoning - their life bar will run out faster then the person who fell off their bike as a kid and never rode again. The catch is every living thing has a unique life bar, and nobody knows how much energy they have to begin with!!

It sounds and looks like you have given him a wonderful life full of love and meals and I hope yall still have more years to go, but In case the time for eternal peace is near, I felt you shouldnt be blindsided. Keep your head up, and keep helping him the way you feel best, trust your gut.

Best wishes for you both, Jessy

 

[jcarlsen]

Hey, I am sorry that your buddy is not doing well. I see alot of people have chimed in with good advice, I agree you should

Replace the lights if you haven't yet, 10 months seems a bit long, I've always heard you need to get new bulbs at 6 months. I recently had to replace a uvb after just 4 months.

I think I read you live up north in MA, I'm not sure what the weather is there as of now, but if the sun is out and temps are above 75 I would let your baby out to get some real sunshine rays, even if only for 30 minutes.

I use repashy calcium plus too, and it is suppose to work like a multivitamin. Some people say they use it everyday, others say it's best to use it once a week, it does have d3 in it though, so if you are suspecting a overly high amount of d3, I would switch to a just calcium supplement (like zoo med repti calcium without d3, I ordered mine from Amazon for 7$. Its a big ass jar too.)
You stated you gut load with bug burgers, and also dust feeders with repashy calcium plus daily, so If it is a nutrient thing causing it, I'd say it's from TOO much, rather then not enough.

Maybe you could go a week without any supplements (as long as the vet said all the nutrient levels are stable, did you get a blood work done?) Or just use calcium without d3 only (not the repashy cal. Plus) and get your baby into the sun some, that way he will create his own d3 naturally and cannot overdose. Sometimes ones own body is the best remedy!!

Personally, I 100% stand behind the "being babied" theory. You know that horrifying saying from 40 year old virgin?? "IF YOU DONT USE IT, YOU LOOSE IT!!" While not being true for Male reproduction organs, it is very true for many, many other situations. Chameleon tongues being one. It could simply just be that he hasn't had to release his strongest muscle in full force for an extended period of time, so his tongue is just a bit rusty now. Keep putting feeders in that he has to hunt, and he will slowly regain his ability, and confidence!!

Okay, this is the key point to why I'm chiming in, and I wish I could say it wasn't sad, but the reality is 4 years is getting up there in terms of chameleon life span. Specifically ambilobe Panthers have a life span of 5- 7 years in top notch environments. Yes some go beyond 7 years, but a higher percentage falls on the lower end of the scale. I'm also under the impression your baby has been sick before, at least once with coccidia, but I vaguely recall reading he got sick more then once. Any illness takes a toll on a living creature, any and all living creatures. I have a bulldog that has been through alot in his life, got attacked by a dog and needed stitches, got shot in the head with a 38 hollow point by neighbor, consequently got lockjaw and had to have another surgery to remove his left mandible so his mouth could open, got in another dog fight when introduced to my brothers Male Irish setter, point being - every time hes got wounded, the vet verbally informed me everytime of the impact it has on life span. He is still very much a happy loving active dog (just has a unique face now [: ) but the stress causes excessive wear and tear on the body and soul.

It's kind of like, imagine that when we are born, we have a little life bar (like seen on videogames) This life bar is filled all the way up with energy, this is ALL the energy you get in your life time. from the moment you take your first breathe to every step you take, every blink, sneeze, every peanut m&m you chew, you are constantly loosing energy from your life bar at a slow steady rate. But say you fall and scrape your knee, a tiny bit more of your energy disappears. And then a year later you break your arm!! There goes another slither, a but more then when you scraped your knee, but far less then if you say get open heart surgery. You constantly loose energy at a steady rate, plus all the bursts of energy sucked from you each time you get sick or injured. If you suffer from any underlying long term illness, your daily rate of energy loss is doubled, maybe tripled. So as you can imagine, someone who has been in various accidents, had surgery after surgery, had the chicken pox, the flu, food poisoning - their life bar will run out faster then the person who fell off their bike as a kid and never rode again. The catch is every living thing has a unique life bar, and nobody knows how much energy they have to begin with!!

It sounds and looks like you have given him a wonderful life full of love and meals and I hope yall still have more years to go, but In case the time for eternal peace is near, I felt you shouldnt be blindsided. Keep your head up, and keep helping him the way you feel best, trust your gut.

Best wishes for you both, Jessy

Thank you for writing so much. I have a new Arcadia 6% bulb and will swap it in now. I was under the impression those lasted longer and only needed replacing once per year, but better safe than sorry! And as far as I'm aware the coccidia was the main culprit only once, but he might have had it for a while before I'd caught on. Hasn't always been easy to get a fecal sample to the vet when we go. It's like he plans his poops for the least convenient time!

His age was something that the vet had brought up and I am very happy that he's made it this far with me learning a lot along the way (first cham). I've tried to do everything I can to give him what he needs. Speaking of which, unfortunately weather up here isn't quite ready for him, still between 40-60...definitely a volatile spring with lots of clouds and rain so far. We have a window in our living room that gets direct sunlight for a few hours and I have a fake plant I put him on for some exposure during the summer and will be doing that this year too .

Also, holy hell your dog survived more than what most humans could go through! Damn!