Too much handling?

[christina1234]

I have had my panther(Pete) for about a month now. He is two years old (I was told) and from day 1 he was drinking water and eating worms from my hand. I know that chams are solitary creatures and too much handling stresses them. However, when we go near his cage he claws to come out and readily crawls onto our hands to come out. Then we will keep him out for about 15 minutes and put him back, but a short while later he is ready to come back out. I want to make sure I am not being naïve by thinking that he likes to come out and hang with us, but it really seems like he does. Also, someone mentioned on a past pic that I posted that he looks overweight. I think it was the angle of the pic I posted, so here is a video of him clawing to come out. Could you please let me know if handling him often is bad even if he seems to like it? Also, could you please let me know if he looks overweight?

Thank you all in advance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0fFGi-xGec

 

[ReptileRampage]

There are some chameleons that tolerate handling, its not a written rule. There are actually many reptiles said to not like it at all but there are always exceptions. Double check your husbandry and if everything is on point then i would assume hes one of the few that dont mind it. Just watch for stress levels and make sure he isnt showing signs of stress. He does seem kind of heavy but i dont have an adult so i cant say for certain. I'll let someone else decide on that

 

[Cait0420]

My chams enjoy coming out of their cage as well. I think they know when I take them out it means they get a field trip outside lol. The little guys climb right on my finger when I put it in their cage. They don't show any signs of stress, they actually lighten in color when picked up

 

[Muddyfeet]

Ok may not have owned 100 of chams, even this species, but one area I DO have extensive experience on.. BEHAVIOR..

looking at the video, It looks like he is trying to get away from something,, how are the temps in his cage? also perhaps try blocking the view from the window for a day? perhaps something like a bird, cat etc has peeked in and is making him want to move away from it?

I agree he wants out, now the question is, wants to have contact or heck wants away from something?
he is avoiding the hands, I am not sure he is seeking contact with you on a behavioral standpoint.. "Sorry"
You did a nice job handling him, and offering him you hands.. He does look kind of stress colored to me, however I don't personally own this species, but the black coloration, but the BIG ONE.. the speed of movement and eye movements makes me think still looking for a safe area, more comfortable area..

Now, ok so? If he only does it when you approach? you could be the trigger, only as a option to get away from a not happy place.. they are quite intelligent animals, that is a older adult.. learning where the opening is and human presence equals escape is not to far a stretch.. Yes learned behavior, going back does NOT have a point of exit.. has not worked, but people, front do.. and a learned behavior chain.. In this case, the presence of the people is a trigger for a option..

Reptiles that feel safe secure, will react, watch, stuff outside of the cage for sure.. will stay still unless you invade that area.. Chams will bluff or frankly watch, stay still.. or just not take a offered hand.. IF they feel comfortable with the protection of the cage.. and not a threat..

This is a slow moving animal unless, hunting, chasing a mate, or fleeing.. Keep this in mind.. add coloration and the lack of movement to the mix.. complex animals behaviorally

May need to try a few things.. "If" the animal was seeking contact, one would expect one lighter colors, also going TO the person.. He is not doing so, and unlike most cages, yours has that little panel that he has to go down to and out.. I really think he may be really bothered by something in the cage or behind it.. and a learned association that "humans" equal a way to get away from that stress..
Now, If you had a go high not down out exit.. bet he take your hand in a instant.. but then would not be a clear wants contact, just a seeking escape higher ground.. this get people all the time.. the oh at the store he/she climbed on me.. now wants nothing to do with me whats wrong?" So your cage actually on a behavioral standpoint offers a clear option and example.. neat!

Now that I have said this, I don't think that you have DONE anything wrong, but and the video is VERY good,, But assessing it on a behavioral standpoint (a animal behavior geek speaking) Something is bothering him to offer this, I am thinking in the cage or placement.. and even though your presence is a trigger, not to oh I want to seek contact.. it is a indication that your presence is a less stressful option to what is bothering him.. so NOT all bad.. but not a animal oh people please pick me up situation.. don't take it personal.. its their nature.. the fact the animal is NOT fleeing humans shows at least a safer option.. trust me I have seen some who DO flee no matter what from humans in many different species...

Behaviorally however I don't think his primary motivation is for contact.. just escape..

as he is new.. I really lean to something bothering him in the cage, or outside.. and a learned option that you equal a way to relive this..
Also if new until he gets comfortable in general with his cage, and new environment.. if a Longer term captive, or CB animal lots of time to learn people = escape..

So look at stuff in the cage, outside (that window) block visual access and give LOTS of cover.. Hands off, no opening and letting out... let him settle in for a few weeks.. develop comfort with the cage and the safety it provides..


Hope this helps...

 

[Thegreatfonz]

I agree with Muddy, the first thing I'd do is put his cage on a stand and get him up into the air over your heads so he can feel safer.

 

[Psychobunny]

I also agree, he is desperate to get out, he is prefering not to use your hand to escape, but has no choice.

 

[Devokid]

From the video it looks like there is not any foliage in the top half of the cage. This is a problem and should be addressed. They need to have some foliage up in the top of the cage so that they can hide in it and feel safe. My panthers spend most of the time outside of the dense foliage, but they will dart into it if they get scared. I would try and find a ficus tree, or hibiscus, that is 2-3 inches shorter than the cage and put that in there. Think more forest, less undergrowth.

 

[christina1234]

Thank you all soo much! I hope it is not something he is trying to get away from, I will elevate his cage so that he is higher than us. When he is closer to the bottom of the cage he does the same thing and actually goes straight onto our hands. I will leave him alone and not handle him for a few days. I am also going to add more plants around the top. I was thinking being by the window would be good for him- that although he is not getting direct sunlight he can see it and that it would be somewhat beneficial. Am I wrong? Should they be kept away from windows?

 

[christina1234]

I forgot to add: I have a digital thermometer at the end of a cord that takes the temp/humidity reading. The basking spot is at about 85 in the afternoons, maybe a little higher during the day. I use the power sun UV bulb in the day, and a ceramic at night.

 

[Muddyfeet]

no not normally, just thinking it is odd he is not going to the window seeing a wide expanse.. just covering all the bases