Trying to breed my female ambilobe with no success.

[Chameleon Company]

This is where Chameleon Company talks about inexperienced people...and Chameleon Company raises chameleons outside, year round, in FL, and has EXPERIENCE

Yes, but the point I hoped to make was that I am not criticizing the ethics of those folks in pointing out their haste to propagate, just that it is a foible of inexperience. I was obviously quite turned-off by the description of folks that categorized them as turning their females into "disposable baby makers". While I know that was not your term, it was a very cheap shot IMMHO when it was used. Inexperience with animals like chameleons, and the death and suffering it causes the animals kept, will always be with us. Forums such as this help to reduce the ignorance, as does the internet, Google, etc, which brings me to a second point:

Time on the forum means nothing, personal experience means something.

I would counter that time on forum does matter, just as time spent anywhere gaining knowledge from others matters. True, it is not the same as first-hand experience, but if we all had to learn from scratch and only by our own doing, how slow would the learning process be ? A few posts of late have been combinations of put-downs of others, both direct and back-handed, while the poster was engaging in self-elevation. Kind of sours the discussion

 

[Nicodemayo]

Jim, I know you have been doing this for a long time, and you have seen the hobby evolve, and much of the experience you share here is experience you have found through personal trial and error but I have a question for you. Of the dozens/hundreds/however many females you select as your breeders, what do you do with them when you find them unsuitable to breed any longer?

 

[Julirs]

However, many inexperienced buyers will let me know before they have had the animal two weeks that "she bred last week". This is before they have allowed enough time to establish a proper vitamin and mineral regimen to prepare that female for successful reproduction. In our view, that process can take a month or more.

This statement is hugely worth emphasizing.

this whole concept of breeding and cutting the life short is straight up BULLS*^T! a female is going to make eggs regardless if mated! shes going to dig a hole and lay them fertile or infertile, so how is there any difference?! there isnt. That little bit of stress wont cut their life in half or by any significant amount. People need to stop being so conservative in their views of chams!

This is all just wrong to say. Is this the voice of inexperience? Or something else?

I would counter that time on forum does matter, just as time spent anywhere gaining knowledge from others matters. True, it is not the same as first-hand experience, but if we all had to learn from scratch and only by our own doing, how slow would the learning process be ? A few posts of late have been combinations of put-downs of others, both direct and back-handed, while the poster was engaging in self-elevation. Kind of sours the discussion

I agree with you Jim-my haste in posting at fault. Without the knowledge of the people I consider the truly experienced long term keepers, I would be lost.

 

[chameleonneeds]

See below.

It looks more like just agreed with everything I said to you.

Ofcourse someone who can hatch parsonii is expert, I bet I could though.
Give me the right information, 1 strait month to research, all of the right equipment, sufficeint feeders, alot of space, a few pairs and ALOT of time and I WILL DO IT.

See those are many of the things people dont have which is what holds most people from breeding them.

So im just saying, dont judge peoples knowledge on how long they have been on the forum, or what they have or havnt hatched out.

I personaly am waiting on my pumilum to drop and FIRST batch of VEILED eggs to hatch, that doesnt mean you could be more knowledgable than me or anyone else.

 

[Julirs]

It looks more like just agreed with everything I said to you.

Ofcourse someone who can hatch parsonii is expert, I bet I could though.
Give me the right information, 1 strait month to research, all of the right equipment, sufficeint feeders, alot of space, a few pairs and ALOT of time and I WILL DO IT.

See those are many of the things people dont have which is what holds most people from breeding them.

So im just saying, dont judge peoples knowledge on how long they have been on the forum, or what they have or havnt hatched out.

I personaly am waiting on my pumilum to drop and FIRST batch of VEILED eggs to hatch, that doesnt mean you could be more knowledgable than me or anyone else.

I appreciate your can-do attitude-but I fear with Parsons experience AND knowledge is going to win out-and then there is still no gurantee of sucess.

I fear by age, education, company, experience, and knowledge I have the edge, but that does not mean that once you get all of those things under your belt you won't be more knowledgeable than me!

Anyways-this was never about me. Bottom line is that bad information (often coming from inexperience) can do much harm.

 

[ChrisnLisa]

was obviously quite turned-off by the description of folks that categorized them as turning their females into "disposable baby makers". While I know that was not your term, it was a very cheap shot IMMHO when it was used.

Jim- Sorry if you took offense to this statement, as this was not directed at you. I never quoted you once during my last post...geez, how do you fit through the door? You speak plenty and often of your facility in FL, and from what you say, it sounds like you have plenty of stock, and would never need to use any of your females as "disposable baby makers" .

You can pick apart my statement all you like with things like high mortality rates, eggs that are not viable, etc. but I'm quite certain you and most other people here knew what I was talking about. By "disposable baby makers" I meant novice keepers who buy any cheap female on sale, breed them at the first available opportunity, and continue to do so at any given chance. That, IMMHO is using a female a "disposable baby maker". Not giving a damn about her health or well-being, before, after, or during egg production.

Because hey, Billy-Bob breeds iguanas, and those are lizards, so maybe I can do it too!!!

I'm sure you have seen a lot of this yourself over the years. Sub-par breeders producing sub-par babies that are kept in sub-par conditions. Unfortunately those are the same people that are going to be buying your $150 female specials, and as you said, breed them before owning them a full two weeks.

Instead of all the focus on weight vs. age, how about overall health and quality, like you have brought up in your last few posts. There are too many dumb-ass's that choose to ignore or look over that part.

It should be about quality, not quantity. There are a lot of people out there breeding a lot of different things, giving me a lot of options for trades and purchases. But as I said before, I love reading "controversial" topics such as breeding young, inbreeding, etc. Makes me realize who I do and do not want to do business with.

Bottom line is that bad information (often coming from inexperience) can do much harm.

Perfectly said, thank you!!