Two vets and no answers

Supplements take awhile to build up in the body. If the LoD is the root cause of her behavior, it could be that the shipping threw her for a loop and she started to actually show signs. Lily didn't start looking really bad until I moved her to the big enclosure and then back into the smaller again - the stress seemed to have "set her off". In her case, UVB overexposure (and some degree of D3 toxicity, I'd wager).

Additional note: Fat valuable vitamins also take awhile to get OUT of the system, so it can take awhile to see results if the supplements are changed.
 
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AnamCara said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Panther Chameleon, 8 months old, in my care two months.
  • Handling - Recently just to go to the vet and check her grip
  • Feeding - So far for me she has only eaten crickets, silkworms and hornworms. Gutloaded with a variety of veg and bug burger and superload from Repashy.
  • Supplements - Repashy Calcium plus LoD on *most* everything but hornworms
  • Watering - mister goes on for 5 minutes leading up to her light turning on. for 1 minute at 4pm and for 6 minutes about an hour after her lights turn off. Nighttime humidity gets to 80% -- I do hang a shower curtain on the front of the enclosure to get humidity up. I have not seen her drink.
  • Fecal Description - She has not pooped in over a week -- but the last time she did everything looked normal with a white urate.
  • History - I think you all know her history but she was shipped to me a couple of months ago from another forum member who took EXCELLENT care of her. .

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 4x4x2 screen stuffed with plants.
  • Lighting - Arcadia 6% bulb, less than 3 months old -- lights on 6am-6pm
  • Temperature - I use a thermometer control and her basking spot is 82 degrees.
  • Humidity - Hydrometer measures humidity. 40-50% during the day, up to 80% at night.
  • Plants - Pothos, more Pothos, dracanea, ficus.
  • Placement - Home office, away from window and vent, raised using garage shelving units.
  • Location - Longmont Colorado

Current Problem - This is a bit of a story.

Since I got Coza, she has pretty consistently hung out in the bottom of her enclosure. She would roam around a tad at first, but that was about it. She literally stays on the lowest branch.

About a month ago I noticed she was sleeping during the day -- not sleepy colors but her eyes were closed. I consulted some forum members and raised her UV light off of her enclosure after seeing some information / charts recently put out. I got a solar meter and due to the levels I was getting I put her light back on her enclosure. When I had raised it I also stopped supplement for a week, thinking she was maybe getting too much D and too much UV. We had a vet visit and fecal and the vet could not find anything wrong -- fecal was good, her grip was good and she appeared healthy -- no dehydration, not skinny.

Another forum member said to start cutting her feeding to every other day. I have not seen her eat in some time, -- but I do know she is eating because her food disappears. I have tried to install a camera but the location and density of her cage makes it impossible to mount a camera where I can see her during the day.

After the initial vet visit I did not see her with her eyes closed during the day -- she was still only hanging out in the bottom part of the enclosure. In the mornings, she will move briefly, but always return to that spot.

There is another vet that see's chameleons relatively close to me, so we went there, had another fecal done, and again they could not find anything wrong.

I know something is wrong. Two days in a row recently I found her sleeping with her lights on, on the lowest branch. I'm concerned she is not basking. Couple of times I moved her up to her basking spot and she climbed right back down to the lowest branch.

With the light on top of the cage the UV reads 3 at her basking branch.

I've neglected taking this to the forums as I wanted to consult vets first, but with what's going on and Mona still not laying I'm concerned I'm having a lapse in my husbandry. I'm at a loss and feeling frustrated and defeated. I don't know what I can do next.

Thanks for the feedback.
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I do not have much to add except my Frances had many of these issues with all supplements . It did not matter the brand she could not take any powdered supplements . We brought her to the 2 best vets we had . We ended up with liquid cal . No D or multi , it was a hard choice she lived this way nearly 4 years . I leaned on many here as well . I’m not saying at all this is what you should do more a Thought .
 
Kristen Wilkins said:
I do not have much to add except my Frances had many of these issues with all supplements . It did not matter the brand she could not take any powdered supplements . We brought her to the 2 best vets we had . We ended up with liquid cal . No D or multi , it was a hard choice she lived this way nearly 4 years . I leaned on many here as well . I’m not saying at all this is what you should do more a Thought .
Click to expand...

How do you / did you supplement vit a?
 
Kristen Wilkins said:
Capsule drop on a feeder .
Click to expand...
We had her out as much as we could . That would be June through oct . Not all day but at least a few hours daily . We would see much improvement with the out door months , with a big decline with in weeks of no out side time . We did 8 hours of simulated sun (lights) through winter months . She would take a much quicker decline with the 12 and 12 . We did bring her in often for x-rays with this schedule it was imperative to watch bone density . We got her from weeks between sickness to months . She was really tough had to really know her Qs , really little things meant big things coming . With this schedule low temps (80) and feeding every 3rd day she only lay 2 small clutches in just shy of 4 years of us having her .
 
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I wanted to provide an update.

Coza has been moving around and basking. She has been eating silks again, as well as her crickets. I know she eats the crickets as they disappear, but the silks I hand fed (yay!) She seems perkier.

I changed the supplement schedule to the traditional schedule, after skipping all supplements for about 5 days. I have not changed her environment otherwise, as I don't want to make too many changes at one time. the only other change I made was lowering her UVB back to where it was (measured with a solar meter) and turning off the linear 65k. I will continue to monitor her and see how we're doing.
 
I miss hand feeding her silks. I've only gotten EZ to eat one silk worm off of a branch so far. He ignores them in the feeder run and looks away from me if I put my hand near him.
 
Update Update:

She was out most of the day! Chilling in her (or what was once) her favorite spot, looking for food. Couldnt get her to take a roach yet lol. Still eating silks well. Waiting on some crickets to come and we will stay with traditional supplement schedule.

And to my worry, she is growing, and she is about to have her second shed with me.
20200218_174025.jpg
 
That's great news. I'm so happy she is doing better. I could never get her to eat a roach. I can't get Ezekiel to eat a silk, lol, chameleons and their personalities.
 
One of my guys refuses roaches, too, so I put small ones in a cup with supers or silks and tilt it so they all pile up. So when he gets a silk or superworm he inadvertently gets a doobie too!
 
ponders said:
That's great, I'm glad she is better.
Does she have any branches to climb on?
Click to expand...
Yes, they go throughout her entire enclosure -- s has a large piece of wood towards the top and vines throughout -- she also has pothos plants that weave through.
 
Another Update:

This thread is mostly for me now, to track activity.

I have made multiple changes -- moved back to traditional supplement schedule, adjusted lights, bought a UV Meter, thinned out the enclosure, let it grow back in, removed linear Plant Light, returned linear plant light -- made sure I have a BIG variety of gutload (hard to do when she mostly only will eat SIlks) but the crickets get a variety.

She still, 90% of the time, stays at the bottom branch of her enclosure. She is the polar opposite of Mona. She is not food driven, hardly roams around.

For a while I tried some conditioning -- you come to the top to bask, you get food. However, she comes to the top so infrequently that I just feed her where she is to make sure she gets food and supplements.

Outside of her staying in one spot, everything else about her seems healthy. Good vet checks. Healthy poops and urates. Good grip. no parasites. etc.

Curious.
 
Make sure your cham is drinking enough water and only eats in the daytime - Not sure what they tested in bloodwork, but different tests show different things, and they would have to have done specific tests to see different problems. Without knowing what tests they did, if they said nothing is showing in the blood work, maybe take a step back and ask...if your cham is sleeping in the day, what is going on at night? Maybe nothing, but maybe your cham doesnt feel secure or something is keeping him up at night?

My cham get really sleepy and basically passes out soon as the sun starts going down. He does not like to be interrupted or have lights on when he is sleeping. Again, not saying that's happening, but just an idea.
 
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