Types of crickets

[Gryllidae Per Kcal]

Look up the ash content in mealworms, it’s low, which means they can’t hold gutload as well as they need to. There’s your proof. They also aren’t easy to digest and can cause impaction in chameleons from their high chitin levels. They have a bad calcium-to-phosphorus ratio and are fatty, too. They don’t make top feeder lists for bearded dragons, leopard geckos, chameleons and more. Go through at least the first two pages of this Google search if you want:
mealworm nutritional value vs other feeder insects

Proof that ash content effects gut loading? I have read many gut loading studies and ash content may be mentioned if there’s a full nutrient analysis of the different types of feeders but once they start talking about gut loading and the challenges of altering nutrients in crickets and mealworms, ash content is never considered a factor. The factors that effect gut loading capacity is palatability, temperature, age, and dish placement for non burrowing feeders. Their calcium to phosphorus ratio is undesirable like other feeders (except for BSFL) unless a proven gut loading diet is used. This is not high calcium vegetables, it’s diets like Repashy Superload, Mazuri Better Bug ( tends to cause a blockage in mealworms, and consequently didn’t increase calcium very well), Mazuri Hi-Calcium Cricket Diet ( more effective in increasing calcium in mealworms), and Züküdla Cricket Max2.

 

[ERKleRose]

Looks like you guys missed this post. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/the-evils-of-mealworms.180182/
I only give mealworms to my leopard geckos.

Somehow completely missed that thread! All that is true, but the minute we say mealworms are okay as variety (not just a rare treat), newbies and less knowledgeable keepers will use them as a staple, like someone posted on that thread. I personally have seen a chameleon get an impaction from them after only eating 6 small ones. I don’t use mealworms because of that and that they hold little gutload and there are TONS of healthier feeders to use as variety.

@Gryllidae Per Kcal I seldom use crickets for variety either because, like I’ve stated, there are better and healthier options to use

 

[Gryllidae Per Kcal]

Somehow completely missed that thread! All that is true, but the minute we say mealworms are okay as variety (not just a rare treat), newbies and less knowledgeable keepers will use them as a staple, like someone posted on that thread. I personally have seen a chameleon get an impaction from them after only eating 6 small ones. I don’t use mealworms because of that and that they hold little gutload and there are TONS of healthier feeders to use as variety.

@Gryllidae Per Kcal I seldom use crickets for variety either because, like I’ve stated, there are better and healthier options to use

A well supplemented Cricket is no less healthier than a well supplemented roach. They both have bad calcium to phosphorus ratios before being gutloaded and/or supplemented and they both are deficient in vitamins A,D, and E. Roaches have a higher protein content but according to this study, it’s not a good quality protein. ( I know it’s for dogs and cats but I’d rather feed the feeder that just have enough protein but in good quality than the one that has a little more protein but low quality).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...nd-cat-foods/4C395D62B8970EF115F5AB5FC57B6C0B

 

[Gryllidae Per Kcal]

@ERKleRose If I was forced to choose between the two that is. I definitely use dubia roaches alongside crickets, hornworms, and silkworms (if my gecko ever decides to stop turning her nose up at them ) as a staple. In the future I might try termites...maybe.

 

[ERKleRose]

A well supplemented Cricket is no less healthier than a well supplemented roach. They both have bad calcium to phosphorus ratios before being gutloaded and/or supplemented and they both are deficient in vitamins A,D, and E. Roaches have a higher protein content but according to this study, it’s not a good quality protein. ( I know it’s for dogs and cats but I’d rather feed the feeder that just have enough protein but in good quality than the one that has a little more protein but low quality).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...nd-cat-foods/4C395D62B8970EF115F5AB5FC57B6C0B

If dubias are fed a too high of protein diet before being fed off to chams, it can cause a build up of uric acid. Which I guess could venture off into a whole ‘nother discussion! I love red runner roaches the most (there are other, too) over dubias. I’m also sorry I laid into you. I am very much on the far side of not feeding chams mealworms at all. Your links, argument, and the other thread have nudged me closer in the middle and have changed my mind some. I won't personally do it, but I certainly won’t come out that hot again! Sorry, again! Truce?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Look up the ash content in mealworms, it’s low,

See below; it's more than most.

Looks like you guys missed this post. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/the-evils-of-mealworms.180182/

Thanks. You just saved me copy/pasting that table again.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Besides, chameleons don’t eat them in the wild,

Not a good argument. They don't eat dubias, banded crickets in the wild either, and some of what's there now was introduced by us (e.g. BSFL, superworms, others)

 

[ERKleRose]

Not a good argument. They don't eat dubias, banded crickets in the wild either, and some of what's there now was introduced by us (e.g. BSFL, superworms, others)

Yeah, I know. I just personally feed lots of moths, flies, and butterflies. I got caught up in my statement, and I got things out of hand. I’d like to apologize again!

 

[PoseidonTheChameleon]

I heard banded crickets are better and hardier than others, richer in protein too. I personally feed banded because they are "cleaner/hardier" and more active.

Very quiet too

 

[Gryllidae Per Kcal]

If dubias are fed a too high of protein diet before being fed off to chams, it can cause a build up of uric acid. Which I guess could venture off into a whole ‘nother discussion! I love red runner roaches the most (there are other, too) over dubias. I’m also sorry I laid into you. I am very much on the far side of not feeding chams mealworms at all. Your links, argument, and the other thread have nudged me closer in the middle and have changed my mind some. I won't personally do it, but I certainly won’t come out that hot again! Sorry, again! Truce?

Truce, that’s just the nature of debates I guess.

 

[ERKleRose]

Truce, that’s just the nature of debates I guess.

Thank you!

 

[Ramrod]

I do breed my own mealworms but they only go to the turtles. Don't use crickets anymore but when I did, I found the banded to be far better than others.