Undigested BSF larvae

[Blmelton]

Every time I feed my 6 month old female veiled chameleon BSF larvae (small 1/4 inch), I find them undigested in her poop afterward. I feed at about 6:30 am. Yes, I am 100% sure that is what I am seeing. They come out looking exactly the way they did when they went in. I know this is gross, but once there was one that was still alive. This does not happen with any other feeder. Is this a sign of illness? Is it possible for them to have an "intolerance" for certain common feeders? Should I increase basking to help with digestion? Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, age unknown- estimated 6 months old. She has been in my care 1 month.
• Handling - Lately, she has been coming up to me when I am misting or cleaning her cage and crawling on to me. I take this opportunity to let her come out for a few minutes each time (once every day/ every other day).
• Feeding - crickets, superworms, small Dubai and BSF larvae (small 1/4 inch). I have offered squash & kale but she did not eat it. We are transitioning to feeding every other day. Currently she eats 6 feeders on day one and 4 feeders on day 2 then repeat. The feeders have been given squash, apples, kale, & oranges and cricket crack.
• Supplements - Calcium w/O D3 daily, multivitamin 2 x monthly, Calcium with D3 2x monthly.
• Watering -Large homemade dripper- 24 hrs a day. Hand spray 2 times a day for aprox 2-5 minutes.
• Fecal Description - brown feces with mostly white urates. She has not ever been tested for parasites?
• History - The pet store said they had her in the back due to space and they frequently handled and hand fed her.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 30 inches by 16 inches screen Zoo Med cage- My husband is building her a bigger enclosure hopefully finished by spring/summer.
• Lighting - I have a t5 with 6% Arcadia. Lighting is on a timer that turns on from 7 am -7 pm.
• Temperature -Floor ~70 degrees Basking~85 degrees. Lowest overnight temp- 64 degrees. I measure the temps with the Zoomed digital thermometer, temperature gun, and AccuRite digital thermometer & humidity gauge.
• Humidity - ~40-60% (80 after misting) Misting 2 times daily for aprox 2- 5 minutes each.
• Plants - some artificial vines with leaves & 2 live pothos along with 2 of another species of plant (I can’t remember what kind at the moment, but I took the safe plant list with me when I bought it).
• Placement - The cage is not near an air vent. It is in my bedroom. The cage is sitting up on a utility shelf with drainage bin underneath.
• Location - South Carolina
• Current problem- Undigested bsf larvae in feces. No other feeders go undigested.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Pics?

 

[Blmelton]

Pics?

I should have taken some. I’ll take some this afternoon when I get home from work. That is if there is any “evidence” in the poop.

 

[Syreptyon]

Your cham probably just isn't chewing them well. BSFLs have tough outer layers which probably need to be punctured in order to be digested successfully!

 

[Blmelton]

She doesn't appear to chew them at all. They are so small it often looks like she swallows them whole. I will still take pics when I get home. I know everyone will be SO excited to see my poop pics after dinner this evening

 

[Syreptyon]

She doesn't appear to chew them at all. They are so small it often looks like she swallows them whole. I will still take pics when I get home. I know everyone will be SO excited to see my poop pics after dinner this evening

It's like corn for humans! If you don't chew it, you will see it again

 

[nightanole]

Yea input looks the same as output here too. I ended up only feeding the flies.

 

[Blmelton]

Ok, sorry to disappoint, but no poop today. I thought my 13 year old may have cleaned it up, but then I thought...nah. What was I thinking? Maybe tomorrow . Lights out in 10 minutes.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

If the worms are relatively small for the mouth of the chameleon then they will frequently get swallowed without being chewed. Those worms will pass right through!

 

[Blmelton]

So, obviously if they aren’t being digested they aren’t doing her any good nutritionally, but she LOVES them. I read that you can feed them bananas to increase their size. Is that true or should I just let them do their thing and feed them when they turn into flies?

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Be BSFL will only grow to a certain size. No bigger! So, they are not a suitable feeder for most bigger chameleons no matter what you feed to the BSFL. The flies are a lot easier to digest than the larvae.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

In pretty sure adult BSFs don’t eat, their sole pourpose is to reproduce and die. Imagine the story the undigested BSFL have to tell their friends when they come out the other side!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

So BSFL are composting machines, why don’t they pose a threat to the Cham if they are alive the whole time? Why wouldn’t they snack on the chams insides?

 

[Blmelton]

already decided not to feed them anymore but that thought seals the deal!

 

[Karmiesmommy]

Every time I feed my 6 month old female veiled chameleon BSF larvae (small 1/4 inch), I find them undigested in her poop afterward. I feed at about 6:30 am. Yes, I am 100% sure that is what I am seeing. They come out looking exactly the way they did when they went in. I know this is gross, but once there was one that was still alive. This does not happen with any other feeder. Is this a sign of illness? Is it possible for them to have an "intolerance" for certain common feeders? Should I increase basking to help with digestion? Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, age unknown- estimated 6 months old. She has been in my care 1 month.
• Handling - Lately, she has been coming up to me when I am misting or cleaning her cage and crawling on to me. I take this opportunity to let her come out for a few minutes each time (once every day/ every other day).
• Feeding - crickets, superworms, small Dubai and BSF larvae (small 1/4 inch). I have offered squash & kale but she did not eat it. We are transitioning to feeding every other day. Currently she eats 6 feeders on day one and 4 feeders on day 2 then repeat. The feeders have been given squash, apples, kale, & oranges and cricket crack.
• Supplements - Calcium w/O D3 daily, multivitamin 2 x monthly, Calcium with D3 2x monthly.
• Watering -Large homemade dripper- 24 hrs a day. Hand spray 2 times a day for aprox 2-5 minutes.
• Fecal Description - brown feces with mostly white urates. She has not ever been tested for parasites?
• History - The pet store said they had her in the back due to space and they frequently handled and hand fed her.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 30 inches by 16 inches screen Zoo Med cage- My husband is building her a bigger enclosure hopefully finished by spring/summer.
• Lighting - I have a t5 with 6% Arcadia. Lighting is on a timer that turns on from 7 am -7 pm.
• Temperature -Floor ~70 degrees Basking~85 degrees. Lowest overnight temp- 64 degrees. I measure the temps with the Zoomed digital thermometer, temperature gun, and AccuRite digital thermometer & humidity gauge.
• Humidity - ~40-60% (80 after misting) Misting 2 times daily for aprox 2- 5 minutes each.
• Plants - some artificial vines with leaves & 2 live pothos along with 2 of another species of plant (I can’t remember what kind at the moment, but I took the safe plant list with me when I bought it).
• Placement - The cage is not near an air vent. It is in my bedroom. The cage is sitting up on a utility shelf with drainage bin underneath.
• Location - South Carolina
• Current problem- Undigested bsf larvae in feces. No other feeders go undigested.

Glad I saw this. My veiled doesn’t care for BSF larvae but sometimes I can get her to accidentally grab a few. I was cleaning her poop up this morning and saw one alive in her poop! I knew what it was instantly and have pics (last one on the bottom. In the video it was crawling around ) but was still worried just in case.

 

[Beman]

Glad I saw this. My veiled doesn’t care for BSF larvae but sometimes I can get her to accidentally grab a few. I was cleaning her poop up this morning and saw one alive in her poop! I knew what it was instantly and have pics (last one on the bottom. In the video it was crawling around ) but was still worried just in case.

This is very common... If the cham does not chew them they will come out undigested and sometimes still alive.

You can pin them prior to feeding. Take a sewing pin and puncture them through the middle and immediately feed them off. This does the same thing that chewing them will do and allows for the body to break them down. Also ensures nothing comes out the other end alive.