Veiled Chameleon - Eye trouble and Slow eating..

[stumpy1992]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled , Female , Roughly 5 months old.
Handling - Less often, she hisses very bad if i go near he back but if my hand is nearer her head she climbs on my hand.
Feeding - Locusts mainly. Was Around 8 medium locusts per day, however last couple of weeks she will only eat between 1 - 2 bugs a day.
Supplements - Nutribal everyday.
Watering - I mist twice a day with a spray bottle and have a dripper dripping one drop per second for about 10 mins every day.
Fecal Description - Brown with little white part, sometimes has a little yellow in the white part. She has never been tested for parasites.
History - Had one shut around two months ago and then she eventually closed both eyes and was very ill, wouldn't eat / move. I tried everything from saline rinses to showers, termycin the lot... in the end i decided to try vit A capsules.. i tried one dab of vit A on a feeders back for around two weeks with not much improvement so i upped the dosage to everyday 1 locusts with a little dab of vitamin A liquid and within a couple of days she was significantly better. However, i carried this on every day for around 3 weeks, as soon as i stopped feeding her the vit A 2 days later she was very ill again, and as soon as i started again she got better.. this doesnt make much sense as i dont think everyone else has to feed their chams vit A like this.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Reptile One ReptEvo 60x45x61cm
Lighting - Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 (recommended one by vet etc)
For basking i have a HOBBY Neodyminum Basking Spot Daylight bulb.
Temperature - 79.5 at basking spot, measured using digital reptile thermometer. Have not checked temperature at bottom as she is always at the top.
Humidity - Have not got a humidity gauge yet as store is out of stock and waiting for delivery - misting schedule described above.
Plants - just artificial reptile plants.
Placement - On top of unit out of way of windows vents etc. Top of cage is eye level.
Location - Essex, England.

The last two weeks I have noticed her eating less and less and has come down to between 1 and 2 bugs a day? is this not enough for a cham of this age? and also she has seemed to have gone 'soft' and not shooting her tongue hard at prey but instead slowly grasping them. Additonally to this the last few days she has started rubbing her eye all over the wood and plants in the viv? (she is also a lot more clumsy lately) Ohh and also she has what seems to look like salt?? around her nostrils sometimes.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Adam & karma.

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled , Female , Roughly 5 months old.
Handling - Less often, she hisses very bad if i go near he back but if my hand is nearer her head she climbs on my hand.
Feeding - Locusts mainly. Was Around 8 medium locusts per day, however last couple of weeks she will only eat between 1 - 2 bugs a day.
are the feeders appropriate size for your 5 month old? too much, or too big of something can cause serious impactions.
Supplements - Nutribal everyday.
i have never heard of nutribal. have any links? you must be supplying your chameleon with plain calcium (no phosphorus), clacium with D3 (no phosphorus) and multivitamin with no prEformed Vitamin A, but Beta Carotene instead. do you your research and supply this to your chameleon based on a schedual. I suggest Rep-Cal brand for all 3
Watering - I mist twice a day with a spray bottle and have a dripper dripping one drop per second for about 10 mins every day.
10 minutes is not long enough for you chameleon to want to start drinking in most cases. it is fine to let your dripper run all day giving your chameleon the chance to drink at any given time
Fecal Description - Brown with little white part, sometimes has a little yellow in the white part. She has never been tested for parasites.
a fecal test is always good, especially with wild caught reptiles
History - Had one shut around two months ago and then she eventually closed both eyes and was very ill, wouldn't eat / move. I tried everything from saline rinses to showers, termycin the lot... in the end i decided to try vit A capsules.. i tried one dab of vit A on a feeders back for around two weeks with not much improvement so i upped the dosage to everyday 1 locusts with a little dab of vitamin A liquid and within a couple of days she was significantly better. However, i carried this on every day for around 3 weeks, as soon as i stopped feeding her the vit A 2 days later she was very ill again, and as soon as i started again she got better.. this doesnt make much sense as i dont think everyone else has to feed their chams vit A like this.
this is wrong in so many ways. you gave your chameleon vitamin A without vet prescription or suggestion? Vitamin A and Vitamin D are very dangerous if not used correctly. resulting in illnesses like edema, organ failures, MBD (metabolic bone disease) beyond others, I have a feeling that suppliment you've been giving her is and has done some damage. only thing i can suggest is get to a vet asap


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Reptile One ReptEvo 60x45x61cm
Lighting - Zoomed Reptisun 5.0
is this a CFL (the screw in type), or is it a flourescent tube? if so replace the CFL with a flouresecnt light/ ZooMed CFL's have been known to cause bad eye problems and even blindness in the past. they say the problem is fixed, but its always something to be careful with
For basking i have a HOBBY Neodyminum Basking Spot Daylight bulb.
Temperature - 79.5 at basking spot, measured using digital reptile
thermometer. Have not checked temperature at bottom as she is always at the top.
s
Humidity - Have not got a humidity gauge yet as store is out of stock and waiting for delivery - misting schedule described above.
Plants - just artificial reptile plants.
chameleon safe plants are better to have (schefflera aboricola, ficus benjimina, hibiscus and pothos) it aids great to humidity and is safe for the chameleon to eat
Placement - On top of unit out of way of windows vents etc. Top of cage is eye level.
Location - Essex, England.

The last two weeks I have noticed her eating less and less and has come down to between 1 and 2 bugs a day? is this not enough for a cham of this age? and also she has seemed to have gone 'soft' and not shooting her tongue hard at prey but instead slowly grasping them. Additonally to this the last few days she has started rubbing her eye all over the wood and plants in the viv? (she is also a lot more clumsy lately) Ohh and also she has what seems to look like salt?? around her nostrils sometimes.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Adam & karma.
please go see a herp vet asap please best of luck

 

[tonyamae19]

The basking area should be between 90 and 100, 79 is extremely too old this may be why he doesnt have much of an apetite, the top of my cage is usually about 100 degrees and the bottom is about 75-80. I had the same problem with mine not eating whenever my cage was too cold as well and he seemed to perk back up whenever i added another basking light. Him constantly staying at the top is another indicator of it being too cold in there, he should be moving around to different spots in the cage. whenever mine lost his apetite i gave him repta aid everyday until he started eating again. I would suggest taking him to a herp vet right away to get looked at. I took mine just to get checked out when he stopped eating and thats when i learned the new cage i had for him wasnt warm enough.

 

[kinyonga]

I would try raising the basking temperature into the low to mid 80's.
Do you have a place in her cage for her to dig in should she need to lay eggs? Veileds can produce eggs even without having been mated and failure to provide a place for them to lay them can lead to eggbinding.
Does she have any yellowish/beige splotches on her? Blue dots?

Doesn't nutrobal have vitamin A in it already.....and D3 too?? What form is the vitamin A in?

 

[stumpy1992]

I thought the temps were higher than that tbh as they were 85.5 about a month ago and the thermometer broke and i just assumed nothing would have changed. I bought the other thermometer and another basking lamp and its now up to 94 degrees.

I added this light last night and this morning there is still not much improvement on the eating front but maybe it takes a few days once the temps are increased?

The nutrabol has calcium, d3 and lots of other vitamins including vit A but not too sure on what type of Vit A it is. There is a chameleon breeder that i spoke too and he recommended dusting with this supplement every feed.

Thanks.

P.S Just wondering... is there such thing as a 'bad batch' of chameleons as i spoke to the shop where i bought the cham and all of the chams from when i bought this one had the similar troubles with closing of eyes all the time etc?

 

[stumpy1992]

Update:

Also i just see her rubbing her eye on the wood in her viv. She also seemed to have 'sneezed' a couple of times but it doesn't really resemble URI?

 

[kinyonga]

Inability to use the tongue properly, clumsiness, lethargy and possibly even eating less can indicate a nutrient imbalance. A vet could run a test or two to find out.

Her eating could decrease if she is getting ready to lay eggs. Do you have a bin in the cage for her to dig in? 5 months is a little early...but it can happen.

Some eye issues are the result of the lights being used (see below).

85.5F would be fine...95 is a little high IMHO.

Here is some information that I hope will help explain some things....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[stumpy1992]

hi, thanks for the reply's.

I have brought the temps up and her appetite seems perfect, however now she seems to be partially blind. she see's the food, goes straight for it but then seems to loose it before she shoots her tongue, then she spots it again then repeats that over and over even tho the locust isnt moving.

Only thing i can think of is that im using a kitchen bulb in the reptile bulb holder as the reptile bulb blew.. could this be my problem (blinding her with the light being too strong etc)?

thanks.

 

[carol5208]

most of us use the regular housebulbs for basking. I use a 60 watt. It does not mean she is blind for sure but maybe a vit a diffieciency or something and her eyesight is just off.

 

[chamzilla91]

I keep my 6 month female veileds basking temperature at 82.5 and she has good appetite and isn't lethargic or anything. Thd bottom of the cage is 69 but she doesn't ever go to the bottom because I have a plant pot and a laying bin on the bottom. So my heat gradient is 70F at the lowest temp she can get during the day and 82.5 in the baskkng, then middle of the cage is about 75. Also remember that since youh ave a female lower temperatures and less food than if you had a male can reduce the size of and even altogether stop infertile clutches IMO

 

[kinyonga]

Is the kitchen bulb you are using a CFL? I only use the incandescents.

 

[stumpy1992]

yer it is an incadecent one... if i wiggle the locust with tweezers she seems to know its there but as soon as i stop she looks around as if 'where has it gone'.. any ideas?

Oh, and also, if she is sitting on her branch under the basking spot and there is a locust a few inches away she stretches right out but only puts her tongue out about half and inch not getting the locust as its further away and other times she shoots it fully extended?

thanks.

 

[kinyonga]

Are you sure that she is losing the insect due to her vision and not due to lack of proper tongue function?