Veiled chameleon! Glass Terrarium?

[SpinyFranky]

So I purchase my crickets at petco once a week, and over the last four or so months ive come to watch this tiny veiled chameleon become a strong juve. All his siblings were sold and he is the last one. However today I saw that petco has already received a new shipment and his cage ( if you can call it that ) already houses 4 new veileds.

Ive been eyeing this cham for a while, and have considered that I might "rescue" him from this current state.

questions:
Has anyone done this before? how did it go?
Do petco chams come WC or are they CB usually?

I got lucky with sunshine and got a package deal for her and her home + lighting. I was thinking to purchase the cham as well as this terrariumhttp://www.petco.com/product/108504/Zoo-Med-Naturalistic-Terrarium.aspx?CoreCat=RepAmpFC_Habitats ( I have read of successful care of chameleons using these) would that size be adequate for this cham? who I am guessing from snout to vent is only three to three and a half inches long. Of course as an adult He will need an enclosure double that size. However I was thinking to "test" it out while he is still a juve and if I find it appropriate I would purchase two adult terrariums, one for him and one for my panther.

I have heard that these terrariums are great for holding humidity, and I think that they are more visually pleasing than the current screen cages. The glass would also help for better enjoyment of these wonderful pets, but thats just my opinion.

Your opinion is the one I am really after here.
Ayuda ( help in spanish ) please!

S.F

 

[eisentrauti]

Hi,

if the lil guy is healthy why not ? But you shouldn't buy ever a sick or bad looking animal, this will tell the pet store that they aren't forced to care right for their animals as long as sb like you still buys them.
If it's a small Chamaeleo calyptratus I'm quite sure that it is a CB animal. As long as the prices for calyptratus are so low it doesn't make sense to import them, they Yemen has at the moment other problems.
Glass enclosures work well for chameleons when the top is full screen. But they are very very expensive in an adequate size for adult ones, so in most cases they often just used for juveniles. It's right that the humidity stays longer on a higher level but that's not so important for calyptratus.

As a minimum size for adult calyptratus males I would recommend a cage 100cmx60cmx120cm (lxdxh)
It's possible to keep them in much smaller enclosures but in my mindset a hobbyiest should't keep its animals like lying hens.

Benny

 

[kinyonga]

Is your house airconditioned?
If you lived in Canada or the UK or another cool climate, there would be no problem using a glass cage. Since you are in California, it will depend on the circumstances of your living.

 

[SpinyFranky]

Is your house airconditioned?
If you lived in Canada or the UK or another cool climate, there would be no problem using a glass cage. Since you are in California, it will depend on the circumstances of your living.

My house is weird and runs cold by almost nature. hehhee. However summers can be quite warm. Yes the house is air conditioned and during summer we add to that with room fans.

 

[SpinyFranky]

Hi,

if the lil guy is healthy why not ? But you shouldn't buy ever a sick or bad looking animal, this will tell the pet store that they aren't forced to care right for their animals as long as sb like you still buys them.
If it's a small Chamaeleo calyptratus I'm quite sure that it is a CB animal. As long as the prices for calyptratus are so low it doesn't make sense to import them, they Yemen has at the moment other problems.
Glass enclosures work well for chameleons when the top is full screen. But they are very very expensive in an adequate size for adult ones, so in most cases they often just used for juveniles. It's right that the humidity stays longer on a higher level but that's not so important for calyptratus.

As a minimum size for adult calyptratus males I would recommend a cage 100cmx60cmx120cm (lxdxh)
It's possible to keep them in much smaller enclosures but in my mindset a hobbyiest should't keep its animals like lying hens.

Benny

The terrarium I am considering is 12x12x18. The chameleon I am guessing is 3 inches snout to vent. Im just wondering if this would be an ok combination of pet and cage? and for how long?

Of course I know though that this terrarium would in no way suite an adult chameleon. And I would have full intention of purchasing an adult cage. The terrarium would just be a simple experiment to see how it works in my home and how the chams take to it. If its bad I would buy the veiled a screen cage like my panther currently has. If it worked well I would purchase both panther and veiled a suitable terrarium.

S.F

 

[dodolah]

I really do recommend a screen cage.. especially since you live in Glendale.

 

[eisentrauti]

When it's the Glendale next to Los Angeles - definitely yes

 

[dodolah]

When it's the Glendale next to Los Angeles - definitely yes

Yes.. I am assuming it is Glendale, California.

 

[eisentrauti]

I thought that there are more Glendales in the English speaking world

 

[dodolah]

I thought that there are more Glendales in the English speaking world

Lol, the three words of "Glendale", "CA", and "Petco" in his/her thread gave me a huge hint to how close SpinyFranky is to Los Angeles

 

[SpinyFranky]

Hahahah, yall be brats at this guessing where I live ordeal .
yes its glendale, CA. I live there with my parents ( I be only 18! ) and go to university in Burbank. I suffer from animal lover addiction. hahha.

Well the terrarium is out then.

The cham is still a maybe though. The grandmother hates all things reptilian, which is why she made me get rid of my verucosus ( sp? ) yet 2 months later she allows the panther into the house....

in her defense the verucosus went wild in my backyard ( He RAN AWAY!!!!! ) and she was the one to find him in one of her orchids, as he hissed and gaped at her and tried to bite the worker.....

I feel bad for this veiled though, he is obviously stressing with 4 other room mates in his cage the size of my microwave.... I am guessing he is probably 5 nearly 6 months of age, well past the point of needing to be alone in his own home. That being said he looks healthy, nice round and plump eyes. And some beautiful colors when I held him today. He hated the petco employee, like wanted to take his finger with him. But he acted very calm in my hands, some chin stroking probably helped.


Just an idea, Would anyone want to help sponsor this rescue?( grandmother approval pending of course ) He is sort of expensive at 89.99 for the cham alone.But I figure he bird cages it for a week or two and then When I get payed I can purchase him the Chameleon package from LLLREPTILE. Just a thought, your opinion is welcome.

hahah it could even be like those little african children sponsor things ( complete respect here by the way, I respect anyone who donates to that cause ) where you would get a picture and a little card from the cham and updates and just a general thank you for helping him escape petco.

S.F

EDIT:

Please in no way take the above post as me trying to solicit anything. My entire life I have payed for most things by myself, and I am one for "expensive" projects. Including parrots and DSLR cameras as well as chameleons and tortoises. Im just one of those guys who will probably have a wife and a son/daughter ( yes just one! ) but then maybe 15 pets. Any money that would actually be donated to this rescue would strictly be dedicated to the chams purchase and nothing else.

 

[BocaJan]

You could always offer Petco $50 for the cham. They are selling him in the range that they normally go for. Definately get him a cage at least 18X18X36. Even better are the 24X24X48. My males love the big cages. They roam around and are a pleasure to watch. When you put plants and vines in your cage you can fix it up to be very appealing looking.

 

[derekmorway]

i bought my vieled from petco and its doing fine. if it looks healthy i wouldnt worry to much but no matter where u buy its always a risk i got a baby panther i bought from a breeder tho. the longer its at petco most likely the worse

 

[pssh]

Just thought i'd let you know that you aren't really rescuing him at all. In order to rescue you have to take an animal from poor conditions in such a way that the store benefits in no way from it. All you are doing is supporting bad husbandry (and furtue deaths) by purchasing a healthy looking animal from a place that buys it's animals mainly from mills and backyard breeders who don't care. No responsible breeder of any animal would sell their animals to a petsmart or petco. No responsible buyer would support these mills and backyard breeders.

There is no shame in buying an animal before you know about these mills and bad breeders, but now that you do there should be no reason for you to buy it. Just thought I'd let you know how I feel about it.

 

[SpinyFranky]

Just thought i'd let you know that you aren't really rescuing him at all. In order to rescue you have to take an animal from poor conditions in such a way that the store benefits in no way from it. All you are doing is supporting bad husbandry (and furtue deaths) by purchasing a healthy looking animal from a place that buys it's animals mainly from mills and backyard breeders who don't care. No responsible breeder of any animal would sell their animals to a petsmart or petco. No responsible buyer would support these mills and backyard breeders.

There is no shame in buying an animal before you know about these mills and bad breeders, but now that you do there should be no reason for you to buy it. Just thought I'd let you know how I feel about it.

Well today I went to petco for a little visit. Asked the store manager to take him out of the cage, he said " for the chams stress we dont take them out of the "habitat" " yet last night the guy took him out for me.

I returned this evening and spoke with the reptile "specialist" who took him out for me again - he has very thin limbs, obviously one bowl of meal worms vs 5 chams hasn't been very good.

What broke me though was ( and Im trusting the guy here ) he said they wanted to "get rid" of that cham specifically because he has been picking on the 4 other little ones.... I broke down and bought him right there.

He passed out in the petco box, but has awoken to a decent makeshift home. It is a tad on the small side but will suffice while I nurse this cham back to health. He has very skinny limbs, but a very strong grip. No visible signs of dehydration.

What would the best method to put meat on his bones be? Right now I am guessing crickets ( and a lot of them ) with d3 calc powder to give him that boost, as well as vitamin supps to already gutloaded crickets. But I am sure that there are more ways than just that to get him better quicker, so your input is appreciated. Should I still stick to alternating these powders or in a case like this is it ok to mix both in at the same feeding?

Pending his circumstances tomorrow I am thinking of letting him bathe in the sun for a good hour or two ( supervised of course ). Nothing better for any animal than a good dose of sunlight. This weekend is everything is getting better I will go ahead and purchase LLLREPTILE chameleon package to seal the deal.

Pictures tomorrow most likely.
S.F

EDIT:
I quoted pssh's thread but did not really reply. In my opinion taking an animal out of squalid conditions is saving it, especially when management wants to "get rid of" ( whatever the hell that meant) the animal. Though our opinions may differ, and I respect yours totally.
S.F

 

[pssh]

Saving it is different than rescuing it. You may have saved the animal, but you didn't look at the bigger picture. You just showed petco or petsmart or whatever that there is a market for poorly bred chameleons that are thin and kept in bad conditions. If you had not bought it (and others as well) they may have stopped selling them as they spend a lot more taking care of the chams than they can sell them for. They thrive on impulse buys like what you just did. It's not that I don't support saving or rescuing, but I would rather a few animals suffer than have hundreds more suffer because I could not contain myself enough to not buy it. There is a reason why they don't sell puppies and cats anymore. The demand went away so they had to stop. Now let's try to do that with chameleons, so think about the big picture before you even consider buying an animal or animal supplies from a pet store that sells animals in poor conditions. That is all I'm saying.

Just so you know, you probably could have gotten the animal for free if you had done a bit if research on petco/petsmart. They 'adopt out' (for free) sick or damaged animals. Agressive animals are considered damaged. But it still isn't rescuing because you are helping them free up space.

 

[Carlton]

What broke me though was ( and Im trusting the guy here ) he said they wanted to "get rid" of that cham specifically because he has been picking on the 4 other little ones.... I broke down and bought him right there.

We've all broken down and bought chams we knew weren't being treated well. I have certainly but can also say I didn't pay the full asking price (yes, I lied and convinced them the cham was doomed). I also told the store I would never purchase any supplies in future because of their poor husbandry and policies and made sure other customers heard it. The fact is, PetStupid got the money which was their intent. I read somewhere that one reason so many pet shops can continue to sell live animals is they can play on customers' sympathy and guilt at the way their livestock is kept. The aggression excuse is a blatant lie. If they really cared about their chams they wouldn't house them together in the first place.

So, the end result is, they made their little profit due to your concern. They won't stop selling chams in future. You now have a lucky cham who will hopefully have a better life.

 

[pssh]

Pet stores stopped selling puppies and kittens, so we can stop them from selling them if we make the demand go away.