Roger.bowen
Established Member
I have a Pothos and a ficus
Veiled chameleon not growing
- Thread starter Roger.bowen
- Start date
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
Take a fresh poop to the vet for a fecal smear to check for parasites. He might have cociddia.
Roger.bowen
Established Member
Alright I will do that, should I get a physical exam done on him? Or just the poop sample
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
If you can just get a fecal to start with but some vets will not do a fecal if they have never seen the animal.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Take in just a stool sample and make sure it is really fresh and do not let it dry out. Take everything including the urate. Put it in a plastic bag in the fridge until you can get it to the vet and make sure the vet will look at it on site and soon after you bring it. Some vets will send the sample off to a lab, which won't help you with some parasites. I think you want to do a float and a smear but I am NO expert on parasite detection. Up until now, I've always let my reptile vet decide those things.
Do you have a good scale? An accurate scale is the only way to really tell whether or not they are growing and gaining weight. Most kitchen scales are not accurate enough. You can weigh something small such as a coin repeatedly and see if you get the same weight. Keep that object with the scale to check it's accuracy. It really doesn't matter if the scale is wrong by a few grams as long as it is wrong for those exact few grams consistently. You want to see a trend upward and a young animal staying the same weight is a big red flag. Sometimes they weigh heavier or lighter depending on whether or not they have just had a bowel movement or are about to or have a full stomach or an empty one. The trend should be an increase in weight. They gain weight fast as babies. Record the weight. Try to weigh the same time every day since they usually defecate and eat at the same time every day and you want to keep everything consistent.
Your temps and lighting might be the problem. It it is too dark, they aren't active or eat. UVA is what stimulates eating and activity. What lights are you using other than the UVB? A UVB light on its own makes for a very dark cage. A cold animal won't eat either so check the basking temperatures. Make sure the basking spot is in a place the baby feels safe in or they won't bask and warm up. A cold animal won't eat much either.
Can he easily find the food? They are ambush predators and sometimes if food doesn't walk to them they will go hungry.
At this point don't worry about feeding fruit and veggies to your chameleon. Juvenile animals, even ones that grow up to rely mostly on plants as their main source of food, will mostly eat all insects when young and growing.
I hatch my own silk worms so you can get a variety of size and manipulate their growth by the feeding schedule and temperature. Try flies from a bait shop.
Try increasing the misting frequency. Dehydrated animals won't eat well and urates are only one aspect of judging dehydration,
Hope that helps.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Jannb, if my vet won't do a fecal without seeing the animal I think I would be looking for a new vet. It is one thing to not prescribe worming medicine without seeing the animal but quite another to not check for parasites.
Roger.bowen
Established Member
I thought putting fecal in the fridge kills bacteria and parasites.
Can you give me a link to a scale, all I can find are those kitchen scales, which you say might not do the job
When I first got my veiled, I did not own a temperature gun, just a cheap thermostat. (That's why he was dark in the first picture) Now that I have my gun, he basking spot varies from 81-86. Also if you are talking about it being to dark in the first picture, it was taking right when his lights turned off. And it was also getting dark through my window.
He has taught himself to know where I place his food, as soon as I stick the cup with crickets in it, he runs right over to it. Also I will hand feed him when I have the time. He has never missed a feeding once in his life so far.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Putting a fecal in the freezer is what you don't want to do because the water crystals freeze inside the cells, expand on freezing and destroy the cells so you can't see anything.
I'm sorry, but you will have to do the research for a decent scale. I use a $300 scale used for chemistry. I don't think you want a link to that one!
I don't use a temperature gun either. I have strategically placed thermometers, often using the digital Accurite ones that stick on your window but I am dealing with montanes where heat is the problem. I was not basing my "dark cage" comments on your pictures, just knowing that most keepers' reptile cages are very dark and depressing. It is hard to get enough light into any cage, especially a tall one.
Bottom line, weight gain and growth are dependent on calories and nutrition going into the animal being greater than calories expended. Heat plays a role as chameleons kept hotter will eat more and grow faster because their metabolic rate is higher. Parasites will consume some of the calories, but normally a healthy animal with a healthy immune system will cope and grow even with a parasite load. The group of wild caughts I just bought are loaded with parasites but I won't worm them for a long time if ever and most are growing well. It is only when their immune system is compromised, usually by stress, that the parasites get the upper hand.
If he is eagerly eating for you I would suggest you are simply not feeding enough or you are not offering him food enough times during the day. They can only put so much in their stomach, and if it is full it is full. Veiled are notorious for their voracious appetite as babies. Try feeding him twice a day. I personally wouldn't worry about feeding at night as some people do. I have never understood why anyone would worry about food being in their gut at night. It takes many many hours to digest a meal so there is always food in their gut being digested at night. Would a wild chameleon every pass up a meal in the late afternoon?
Roger.bowen
Established Member
Should I offer him food when I wake up in the morning and when I get home from school to see if that makes a difference?
Grandma65
New Member
I have noticed Fluffy will snap pieces of his plants leaves. The pothos plants in his cage are beginning to look like saws.He eats like a pig ever since I got him. he at times would eat up to 50 of the smallest crickets now he even eats 25 to 30 adult crickets and 5 mealworms a once. I am definately going to cut back on mealworms since they are not as healthy for him.. I was told you can feed them vegetables and fruit too. Can anyone tell me what type they can eat? He is now six months old.
Grandma65
New Member
I fed mine three times a day because he was so tiny the people that gave him to me said he was the second largest baby they had. He is now twice as big as the ones they have.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes. Give him as much food as he wants.
Roger.bowen
Established Member
Ok I will start doing that and see if I get any progress
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
You mentioned your gutload is a dry mix from the cricket breeder. Although I doubt this is retarding your chameleons growth, that mixture is likely far from ideal for chameleons and I'd suggest purchasing one of the gutloads frequently recomended on this forum.
Do as instructed and get yourself the linear fluorescent UVB bulb, use a 2 tube fixture and place a 5000 or 6500 k tube in the other spot. Use a zoomed basking spot, or go to Lowes and get one of the incandescent Sylvania spot gro bulbs for about $7.
A jewelry scale will work, as will most digital gram scales on eBay. Just don't get on that's too small, as I did. I can send you mine, as it's too small for my parsons, but it matches my vet's scale, so I know it works well and it's new. PM if you'd like it.
Get your basking temps to 80-85F. Coccidia often causes loose, foul smelling poo, in large numbers, but small numbers can exist undetected without a fecal exam. Coccidia is common and easily transmitted from reptile to reptile, so your chameleon could have had it from the start.
Yes! Feed in the morning. If you find that difficult, alter your lighting schedule to provide a daytime period that gives you time to feed him and him 4-6 hours to bask, before lights out. Keep him dark, when the lights are off. If you change his lights to come on at say 12 pm to 12am ( more than 12 hours is ok, too, just make sure he gets 8-9 hours of darkness ), you can cover his cage until the lights come on with a sheet or towel. That was an example. If you're usually feeding at 3pm, have his lights come on at 1pm and go off at 1 am, so he has many chances for you to feed him. Place some feeders is bowls and let a few roam, keeping some food in for the crickets, so they don't munch on him.
Don't handle him much. Stress will affect chameleons in many ways. Use a dripper and mist by hand 3 times a day, really making the sides and foliage drip. Read some care sheets, at least 5 and find the common approaches and follow them.
My feeling is husbandry, not parasites are your problem. It sounds like you did a good job getting starting, but chameleons need a great job at keeping them to thrive. You've gotten plenty of good advice and it sounds like you can fix your problems, tweak your set up, and get a fecal/vet check up for $150 or less.
FYI, in a pinch, a dog or cat vet, that is willing, can check a fecal. Roundworms, hookworms, tapeworms, coccidia, and other parasites all look the same or at least enough to detect that they are there, as they do in dogs and cats. If they see something, then pay for that exam and get treatment from the reptile vet.
Do as instructed and get yourself the linear fluorescent UVB bulb, use a 2 tube fixture and place a 5000 or 6500 k tube in the other spot. Use a zoomed basking spot, or go to Lowes and get one of the incandescent Sylvania spot gro bulbs for about $7.
A jewelry scale will work, as will most digital gram scales on eBay. Just don't get on that's too small, as I did. I can send you mine, as it's too small for my parsons, but it matches my vet's scale, so I know it works well and it's new. PM if you'd like it.
Get your basking temps to 80-85F. Coccidia often causes loose, foul smelling poo, in large numbers, but small numbers can exist undetected without a fecal exam. Coccidia is common and easily transmitted from reptile to reptile, so your chameleon could have had it from the start.
Yes! Feed in the morning. If you find that difficult, alter your lighting schedule to provide a daytime period that gives you time to feed him and him 4-6 hours to bask, before lights out. Keep him dark, when the lights are off. If you change his lights to come on at say 12 pm to 12am ( more than 12 hours is ok, too, just make sure he gets 8-9 hours of darkness ), you can cover his cage until the lights come on with a sheet or towel. That was an example. If you're usually feeding at 3pm, have his lights come on at 1pm and go off at 1 am, so he has many chances for you to feed him. Place some feeders is bowls and let a few roam, keeping some food in for the crickets, so they don't munch on him.
Don't handle him much. Stress will affect chameleons in many ways. Use a dripper and mist by hand 3 times a day, really making the sides and foliage drip. Read some care sheets, at least 5 and find the common approaches and follow them.
My feeling is husbandry, not parasites are your problem. It sounds like you did a good job getting starting, but chameleons need a great job at keeping them to thrive. You've gotten plenty of good advice and it sounds like you can fix your problems, tweak your set up, and get a fecal/vet check up for $150 or less.
FYI, in a pinch, a dog or cat vet, that is willing, can check a fecal. Roundworms, hookworms, tapeworms, coccidia, and other parasites all look the same or at least enough to detect that they are there, as they do in dogs and cats. If they see something, then pay for that exam and get treatment from the reptile vet.
Roger.bowen
Established Member
I forgot to mention I got load with apples oranges and just use some romaine lettuce for extra hydration.
Also is this what you are talking about for the uvula hood
http://zoomed.com/db/products/Entry...7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95IjtzOjE6IjAiO30=
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
No. Just get a normal, linear fluorescent shop light or a better version, with a reflector, from lightyourreptiles.com, he can advise you on ALL of the bulbs you'll need and do his best to meet your needs, within budget. A shop light will run you $20ish, a UVB bulb $20ish, and the 5000 or 6500 k bulb should be $5 or less. I found zoomed basking bulbs at 2 for $20 at Petco, just the bulb. Those zoomed bulbs need a clamp lamp type fixture, lightyourreptiles has all of these items, better quality, but a touch more expensive than doing it at the big box stores. If I were you, I'd spend the extra cash, because you'll get excellent customer support and a 100% guarantee.
You still need a better dry gutload.
You still need a better dry gutload.
Roger.bowen
Established Member
Ok so a small update, my scale finally came in the mail and my tiny veiled only weights 6 grams... 
I just don't know what to do. The vet says they will do the fecal examine but then they have to examine him plus meds and this could cost me close to 200$. I emailed them back asking why they had to see my chameleon but they haven't msg'd me back
I just don't know what to do. The vet says they will do the fecal examine but then they have to examine him plus meds and this could cost me close to 200$. I emailed them back asking why they had to see my chameleon but they haven't msg'd me back
niels99
Member
Ok so a small update, my scale finally came in the mail and my tiny veiled only weights 6 grams...
emailed them back asking why they had to see my chameleon but they haven't msg'd me back
Aiii. Three months old you said? I currently have a 4 month old who weights 26 grams. But hes normal i guess. I also keep green anoles and the bigger ones weigh 7 grams!!!!! U sure the scale works properly?!!! Also isnt there another vet cause i can already tell this one does not care as much about the reptile as he does about the money.
I hope your buddy can keep up. Keep letting us know whats going on please
Roger.bowen
Established Member
Well his clutch became available at at the end of march, I got him April 13, it is now June 20 and that would be around 3 1/2 months. I know my scale is working properly because I was able to measure my leopard geckos, which came out to 70 grams and 42 grams. When I contacted the vet about my situation they replied to me saying that fecal is 40 CAD$ plus tax, then if an issue came back with him, he would need an examination legally before they can dispense medication which would be 115 CAD$ plus tax and then medication which is probably like 30 dollars as well. Not to mention the vet is almost an hour away
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
It's absolutely worth it to find out if he has parasites. Parasites can kill if if they go untreated. It is the law in the US that vets can not give out medication to animals they have not seen so I guess Canada has the same law. From my experience, my guess would be your guy has cociddia.
