how much water do i need to use? like enough to mix it and have excess that i can just pour out? and how can i fully test thats its strong enough to hold for her? like should it be compact for her? and how do i keep it moist? cos if i cant disturb her, i cant spray the trash can with a spray bottle, or do i need to do it without her visably seeing me
Veiled Chameleon Wont Lay Eggs
- Thread starter MikeY
- Start date
Will Hayward
New Member
Use enough water to make it so that tunnels will hold. We can't help you more than that. There is no recipe.
Use common sense for misting.
Use common sense for misting.
Will...thanks for answering some of MikeY's questions for me!
MikeY said..."when she would try to dig in the bark yeh she would see me but she would always continue"...and once you "put sand in her cage and then didnt do anything any more"...because she continued to dig when she could see you, its possible that this wasn't digging to lay eggs then....but maybe more with trying to escape the cage.
You said..."i havent left her alone for 24 hours, not long enough for her to possibly dig a hole, lay eggs and cover up again, or is that possible?"...some of them dig the hole and lay the eggs and cover the hole within a few hours. Normally veileds take longer.
The trouble with unmated veileds is that you never know for sure when they should/have to lay eggs. Some don't lay infertile eggs and others do. Part of it has to do with diet/food control and temperature. If the female has a suitable place available to her in her cage, and the husbandry is good, and there's no physical problems, then she should lay the eggs when she needs to without problems.
However, if there is no suitable place to lay the eggs or she has some physical reason (reproductive deformity, fused eggs, etc.) for not being able to lay them or if she is watched and constantly abandons the hole, then she could end up becoming eggbound and need a vet to save her.
Some of the questions I asked were to determine if she was heading towards eggbinding and I asked them because you said she had been digging but had stopped.
Normally, a chameleon that is ready to lay eggs will/should dig a hole...it may take her several days. She may dig in the same hole for several days or she may dig more than one hole for several days. She should then turn around with her bum in the hole and lay the eggs. This can be fairly quick or she may stay in the hole like that overnight. When she has laid the eggs, she will/should fill the hole in and pat the sand/soil down well and then go back up into the branches.
If the husbandry or her state of health is poor or the chameleon has some physical problem or if the chameleon sees you watching her when she's laying the eggs and abandons the hole too often (thinking that its not a safe place to lay the eggs) and she gets past the point of being able to lay the eggs then she will head towards eggbinding. They will appear/act normal for a few days and then you usually find them sitting on the floor of the cage not looking too good.
Some of them seem to still try to lay the eggs even when they can't and will actually turn around in the hole and remain there for a while and then fill the hole in. I'm not sure why this happens, but suspect that they are still feeling the urge to lay the eggs but have some physical problem that is stopping them from laying them....but they go through the process like they have laid them.
All I can say is that I would make sure she has a place to lay them, you make sure her care is proper and if she does anything that might indicate that there's a problem or might be heading towards eggbinding, take her to the vet again.
If you have any questions about what I've said, just ask!
MikeY said..."when she would try to dig in the bark yeh she would see me but she would always continue"...and once you "put sand in her cage and then didnt do anything any more"...because she continued to dig when she could see you, its possible that this wasn't digging to lay eggs then....but maybe more with trying to escape the cage.
You said..."i havent left her alone for 24 hours, not long enough for her to possibly dig a hole, lay eggs and cover up again, or is that possible?"...some of them dig the hole and lay the eggs and cover the hole within a few hours. Normally veileds take longer.
The trouble with unmated veileds is that you never know for sure when they should/have to lay eggs. Some don't lay infertile eggs and others do. Part of it has to do with diet/food control and temperature. If the female has a suitable place available to her in her cage, and the husbandry is good, and there's no physical problems, then she should lay the eggs when she needs to without problems.
However, if there is no suitable place to lay the eggs or she has some physical reason (reproductive deformity, fused eggs, etc.) for not being able to lay them or if she is watched and constantly abandons the hole, then she could end up becoming eggbound and need a vet to save her.
Some of the questions I asked were to determine if she was heading towards eggbinding and I asked them because you said she had been digging but had stopped.
Normally, a chameleon that is ready to lay eggs will/should dig a hole...it may take her several days. She may dig in the same hole for several days or she may dig more than one hole for several days. She should then turn around with her bum in the hole and lay the eggs. This can be fairly quick or she may stay in the hole like that overnight. When she has laid the eggs, she will/should fill the hole in and pat the sand/soil down well and then go back up into the branches.
If the husbandry or her state of health is poor or the chameleon has some physical problem or if the chameleon sees you watching her when she's laying the eggs and abandons the hole too often (thinking that its not a safe place to lay the eggs) and she gets past the point of being able to lay the eggs then she will head towards eggbinding. They will appear/act normal for a few days and then you usually find them sitting on the floor of the cage not looking too good.
Some of them seem to still try to lay the eggs even when they can't and will actually turn around in the hole and remain there for a while and then fill the hole in. I'm not sure why this happens, but suspect that they are still feeling the urge to lay the eggs but have some physical problem that is stopping them from laying them....but they go through the process like they have laid them.
All I can say is that I would make sure she has a place to lay them, you make sure her care is proper and if she does anything that might indicate that there's a problem or might be heading towards eggbinding, take her to the vet again.
If you have any questions about what I've said, just ask!
Will Hayward
New Member
Sorry L, Its an urgent matter, so I figure best to step in.kinyonga said:
I know we all want to see this female pull through this, and I think many of us know how hard it is for a female that is 26 days late laying.Mikey and I spoke privately through instant messaging. To bring everyone up to speed;
Mikey informed me that he keeps dates of everything in a journal (Something more keepers NEED to learn to do) He first noticed the ground pacing and digging in the bark about 26 days ago but has since stopped, even with the addition of sand. So presumably, she started to develop the eggs ~28-40 or so days before that for the gestation period.
I told him I thought it would be best to prepare the "laying chamber" and place her inside tomorrow. I told him that he should lower her food intake and meal frequencies should they cause problems if she does try and lay. Also that if she doesn't show any digging routines in the next few days, that another vet appointment would be needed. This time probably more of an emergency visit- and not a check up. The vet should be informed of dates, something that I think he may not have been aware of the first time?
I have been told to administer 0.3 CCs of liquid calcium to females that are having difficulties laying, as it will A) replenish the calcium, B) Relax the muscles and help ease labour. I did acquire the calcium and tools, though I did not have the chance to use it on the chameleon in question- which had been a problem chameleon for since she came to me from the wild.
I understand that Vets often prescribe a drug/hormone called oxytocin but that this drug might also lead way to other very serious health problems.
Will, I wasn't upset that you answered the questions....I felt that it needed to be dealt with quickly too! The thanks was sincere!
I'm glad you spoke to MikeY privately and have posted the information here to bring us all up to speed (again, sincere, not sarcastic).
MikeY can you take a picture of her sitting on a branch with her body/head not pointing down the branch and post it, please?
I would still try the laying chamber as Will suggested, but I have a feeling that nothing will happen. If so, I would also recommend a visit to the vets (tell the vet as much as possible) again. S/he should be able to determine the size of the eggs and possibly see any problem from an x-ray.
Will said..."I have been told to administer 0.3 CCs of liquid calcium to females that are having difficulties laying, as it will A) replenish the calcium, B) Relax the muscles and help ease labour"...this is something I had discovered over 10 years ago...and it can help if there is no physical reason for her not laying the eggs. (Out of curiosity, Will, where did you learn this?)
Willl said..."I understand that Vets often prescribe a drug/hormone called oxytocin but that this drug might also lead way to other very serious health problems"...I don't know that it leads to health problems, but it will only work within a couple of days of the time that the chameleon should be laying the eggs anyway from what I've heard....and if the chameleon has a physical reason for not laying the eggs, it can cause problems. Oxytocin doesn't always work with chameleons anyhow...but there is another (more expensive) hormone (that I can't think of the name of at the moment) that works better.
There have been cases where the female reabsorbs the eggs....but these have not been scientifically documented. There is no proof that there is a "mechanism" that would allow it to happen.
I certainly hope that your chameleon will get through this okay, MikeY!
I'm glad you spoke to MikeY privately and have posted the information here to bring us all up to speed (again, sincere, not sarcastic).
MikeY can you take a picture of her sitting on a branch with her body/head not pointing down the branch and post it, please?
I would still try the laying chamber as Will suggested, but I have a feeling that nothing will happen. If so, I would also recommend a visit to the vets (tell the vet as much as possible) again. S/he should be able to determine the size of the eggs and possibly see any problem from an x-ray.
Will said..."I have been told to administer 0.3 CCs of liquid calcium to females that are having difficulties laying, as it will A) replenish the calcium, B) Relax the muscles and help ease labour"...this is something I had discovered over 10 years ago...and it can help if there is no physical reason for her not laying the eggs. (Out of curiosity, Will, where did you learn this?)
Willl said..."I understand that Vets often prescribe a drug/hormone called oxytocin but that this drug might also lead way to other very serious health problems"...I don't know that it leads to health problems, but it will only work within a couple of days of the time that the chameleon should be laying the eggs anyway from what I've heard....and if the chameleon has a physical reason for not laying the eggs, it can cause problems. Oxytocin doesn't always work with chameleons anyhow...but there is another (more expensive) hormone (that I can't think of the name of at the moment) that works better.
There have been cases where the female reabsorbs the eggs....but these have not been scientifically documented. There is no proof that there is a "mechanism" that would allow it to happen.
I certainly hope that your chameleon will get through this okay, MikeY!
Will Hayward
New Member
No worries, I knew what you meant. You know Canadians, always apologizing for no reason.
My answer was not sarcastic either.Brandy slipped me the tip, so It may have originated from you? Apparently it should not hurt them if they do not require the calcium? (Unless given in excessive amounts of course) I had planned to use this, but wasn't given the chance.
Let me know if you remember the name of the other hormone that is used. I have heard that it has been suggested that oxidising could be the cause of prolapses around the time of that drug being administered? Maybe our resident Vet forum member can shed light on this- or the name of the other drug perhaps? MWeelock?
I have read documentation that suggests there have been cases of chameleons reabsorbing the eggs,- actually I believe the female in the article was a Veiled, though just as with everything when I need it, I cannot find the web page and I didn't bookmark it. If we are referring to the same article, maybe it be that the eggs rotted and then she possibly dropped them along with feces- thus hiding them from the keeper? I find it a little odd that a chameleons uterus can "absorb" anything.
so far the egg chamber is working, i set it up finally last night around 8:30ish and put her in, she was fine, not panicking of her new surroundings, just taking it all in. this morning i woke up and checked her at around 9ish and she was just sitting on a branch, around 12pmish she started digging (all of this watched on my webcam btw) and it was the most happiest sight i have ever seen lol and all day ive had my brother take snapshots of her in action every few hours and she gets further and further down. thank you all for all your help, so far things are going to plan perfectly.
MikeY
MikeY
woke up this morning just now (9:30am) and she seems to be filling in her hole, she looks thinner, so looks even more like everything is getting ok to recovery all i gotta do is fully wait for her to fill in her hole and let me know shes ready to go back home lol. ill post up full snapshots of everything and post the link since the pics are kind of big to show on the message board.
MikeY
MikeY
sltyfsh1
New Member
second batch of eggs
I am glad to hear it is working out for you. My female layed her 1st clutch 3 weeks ago, and I have read about females retaining sperm and having a 2nd clutch. How long could that take and are the signs the same as before,is this a common occurence . I figured this was a good place to ask since Mikey could have the same thing happen.
I am glad to hear it is working out for you. My female layed her 1st clutch 3 weeks ago, and I have read about females retaining sperm and having a 2nd clutch. How long could that take and are the signs the same as before,is this a common occurence
. I figured this was a good place to ask since Mikey could have the same thing happen.MikeY...I'm glad that she is digging and will feel relieved when you post saying that she laid the eggs
Will said..."Brandy slipped me the tip, so It may have originated from you? Apparently it should not hurt them if they do not require the calcium? (Unless given in excessive amounts of course) I had planned to use this, but wasn't given the chance"...quite possible that I told Brandy. I talk to so many people that I'm never sure who I told what too! Some extra calcium shouldn't hurt unless people have been over-supplementing the vitamin D3.
Will said..."Let me know if you remember the name of the other hormone that is used. I have heard that it has been suggested that oxidising could be the cause of prolapses around the time of that drug being administered?"...from what I know, it could do this if the reason the female didn't lay the eggs was due to a physical problem with the reproductive system or the eggs were fused, misformed or too large to lay. I don't think it causes a prolapse problem other than this. Maybe the resident vet (didn't know there was one on this forum) can correct me if I'm wrong? I'll let you know the drug name if/when I remember it.
Re: reabsorbing the eggs....I didn't read it in an article...but I would be interested in reading that article. It came from personal experience and the experience I had with a vet who referred a patient to me who's female wouldn't lay the eggs in spite of being given oxytocin. These eggs didn't rot and weren't expelled.
You saidl..."I find it a little odd that a chameleons uterus can "absorb" anything....that's been the question.
Will said..."Brandy slipped me the tip, so It may have originated from you? Apparently it should not hurt them if they do not require the calcium? (Unless given in excessive amounts of course) I had planned to use this, but wasn't given the chance"...quite possible that I told Brandy. I talk to so many people that I'm never sure who I told what too! Some extra calcium shouldn't hurt unless people have been over-supplementing the vitamin D3.
Will said..."Let me know if you remember the name of the other hormone that is used. I have heard that it has been suggested that oxidising could be the cause of prolapses around the time of that drug being administered?"...from what I know, it could do this if the reason the female didn't lay the eggs was due to a physical problem with the reproductive system or the eggs were fused, misformed or too large to lay. I don't think it causes a prolapse problem other than this. Maybe the resident vet (didn't know there was one on this forum) can correct me if I'm wrong? I'll let you know the drug name if/when I remember it.
Re: reabsorbing the eggs....I didn't read it in an article...but I would be interested in reading that article. It came from personal experience and the experience I had with a vet who referred a patient to me who's female wouldn't lay the eggs in spite of being given oxytocin. These eggs didn't rot and weren't expelled.
You saidl..."I find it a little odd that a chameleons uterus can "absorb" anything....that's been the question.
Pictures!!
all the pictures of the process of getting josie to lay her eggs are on this site:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v334/mikey_r2002/Josie/
everything from snapshots from the webcam, the setup of the egg chamber, pics of her before and after.
MikeY
all the pictures of the process of getting josie to lay her eggs are on this site:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v334/mikey_r2002/Josie/
everything from snapshots from the webcam, the setup of the egg chamber, pics of her before and after.
MikeY
Will Hayward
New Member
MikeY, thanks for the photos. I'm glad we could all help, and be of help to something that ended up successful. Treat her well and she will be back to normal, she has definetly surprised some of us and may give other late females a bit of chance.
Maddieremington
New Member
I realize this is an old thread, but what ended up happening here? I'm in a very similar situation as my cage is small and she won't lay in the flower pot I made for her. Reply if you can. Thanks
Maddieremington
New Member
(Ignore that last post I made I didn't see all the last few.)
Sallyjeanhicks
New Member
Help !
My chameleon has been green yellow spot and robin blue in her back.
She had been like this going on 2 weeks . She is still eating and lots if water
But she doesn't seem to have engry to walk or claim
Or even pick her head off the ground?? She hasn't start it digging . Is it
Possible because I water her many time a day I may be bothering her . How long can it take for her to lay these eggs I don't. Want to loose my baby . I have her tank set up right do a laying ground I leVe a blanket on the tank all day but I open it 6 -7 time a day to feed her fresh food in the morning and to spray her tank . Any thought
My chameleon has been green yellow spot and robin blue in her back.
She had been like this going on 2 weeks . She is still eating and lots if water
But she doesn't seem to have engry to walk or claim
Or even pick her head off the ground?? She hasn't start it digging . Is it
Possible because I water her many time a day I may be bothering her . How long can it take for her to lay these eggs I don't. Want to loose my baby . I have her tank set up right do a laying ground I leVe a blanket on the tank all day but I open it 6 -7 time a day to feed her fresh food in the morning and to spray her tank . Any thought
