Veiled issues - Fat? Lazy? Crooked Casque? MBD?

maya2

Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, a bit over 2 years old, about 2 years in my care
Handling - Very rarely
Feeding - Crickets, silkworms, horn worms, occasional super worms. The crickets are fed dark greens, Dino Fuel, and the silkworms are fed some silkworm chow I bought from the seller.
Supplements - He gets calcium every feeding, and I'll alternate vitamins and calcium with d3 every 2 weeks.
Watering - I hand mist him twice a day, I don't always see him drink but his urates are white with a little yellow tip.
Fecal Description - He has never been tested for parasites.
History - Recently he had a toe nail come off, we were putting polysporin on it daily but it appears to be healed. No swelling/discharge/just no toe nail there anymore.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen/PVC panel combo (large breeder cage from Dragon Strand)
Lighting - Arcadia 12%, 60watt heat lamp.
Temperature - 90-93 in his basking, 70-75 in the bottom.
Humidity - 40-50 for most of the day, spikes when misting.
Plants - He has a large pothos, a palm, and a fern. (He used to eat most plants so these plants might not stay)
Placement - We moved him into my girlfriends room recently, not a lot of direct sunlight but not a lot of traffic either.
Location - New Mexico

Current Problem - So, there's actually a few of concerns I have.

1. Lately I've been noticing him lean/lay where he's standing. Not leaning like when he's basking, but more like being lazy. He still spends most of his day exploring, eating, and doing his normal thing.
I'm not so worried about him laying in the evening, because I think he's getting ready for bed (is this right?). But sometimes I see him like this in mid-day. Not for very long periods of time but I've been noticing it happening more since we moved him to his new enclosure, which is a little smaller than his old one. Is it possible that this has something to do with over-crowding? Maybe he doesn't feel like he has enough space?


2. He looks fat right? I was comparing pictures and reading a couple threads about chameleons over-eating, and I think this guy looks a bit fat. Just this week I started feeding him less (I'm going to go down to 3 feedings a week of 10 crickets, see if his weight comes down).


3. His casque is jacked.
I suspect that part of why this happened is that when he was little I failed to lower his vines as he grew, and his casque got bent a bit. However, now it's kind of leaning forward. Is this a sign that he has MBD?
His joints and limbs look good to me, and I've been supplementing him as long as I've had him - but maybe I missed a crucial element?
I'm worried that my desperation to not let him have MBD has caused me to either over-supplement or over-feed.

This picture was taken tonight, less than an hour before his lights went out:
anarchy%20lean.jpg

This one was a few nights ago, in the late afternoon/maybe evening:
anarchy%20lean%202.jpg


This picture is a week or so old, and I've trimmed the pothos since then, and he moves around more than he did before it was trimmed.
anarchy%20in%20ashleys%20room.jpg
 
It looks like you are doing a mostly great job. It does look like he could use some more space, but that isn't crucial at this point. The leaning and bent casque are both early signs of MBD. What greens are you gutloading with? Spinach and Kale have something in them that affects calcium absorption. I don't have the info about that right now, but I will get it to you. As for him being fat, I don't see it. He is at the age where you can start feeding him less though. 6-10 crickets every other day should keep him happy and healthy, and you can treat him with hornworms or superworms on the off days. You can also use silkworms as a full meal on feeding days.
Your supplementation looks good. Remember-you don't want the crickets to be ghosts. Just enough powder to make them a lighter shade of brown. I don't use Arcadia bulbs, but in general, lights with uv outputs stop giving UV after about 6 months, and need to be replaced. I'm not sure how it works with the Arcadia ones, but if you've had it in for too long, that could be affecting his calcium intake/absorption. Getting him outside for some sunlight will also help his calcium and overall health greatlly, if you can.
 
From what I can gather, spinach and kale are high in oxalates, which can bind calcium. However, I don't know any more about it so someone else will have to chime in.
 
I rotate which greens I gut feed him with, I've never used spinach but I have used kale numerous times, so I'll cut that out. I use the dino fuel over the veggies, and every now and then I'll dust the crickets with them.

I've also been using dandelion greens, mustard greens, and water cress. Should I change those as well?
These are the ingredients for the dinofuel:
Spirulina platensis, Bee Pollen, Hemp Seed, Turmeric, Rosehips ( Rosa canina), Dandelion ( Taraxacum officinale), Brewer's Yeast, Wheat Germ

Should I discontinue this?


I've definitely cut down on his feeding, but I don't think I cut it down enough. Part of the reason for that is that I've been buying smaller crickets so that both my veiled and carpet could eat them. Since they're small, I've been giving my veiled 10-14. I'll stop doing that, but I was doing it under the impression that chameleons stop eating when they're full.

If he's getting worms then I wouldn't feed him crickets as well. About once a month I'll order silk worms and horn worms and for that week or so the crickets get to live. Super worms only happen every few months or so, and even then I end up only feeding about half of what I buy.

You really don't think he's fat? Is it possible that he's swollen then?


All cham bulbs get changed out every winter and every summer :)
He could use some more outdoors time though. I moved recently and he doesn't really have a good free-range anymore. I'll go buy him a big ficus next weekend to chill out on though.

I'll trim his pothos a bit more, and take an updated picture.
 
Here's the enclosure today, let me know if it looks like he can move around in it:
anarchys%20enclosure%204-11.jpg


Bottom:
anarchys%20enclosure%204-11%20bottom.jpg

I haven't cleaned yet... :eek:

Middle:
anarchys%20enclosure%204-11%20middle.jpg


Top:
anarchys%20enclosure%204-11%20top.jpg
 
I don't use Arcadia bulbs, but in general, lights with uv outputs stop giving UV after about 6 months, and need to be replaced. I'm not sure how it works with the Arcadia ones, but if you've had it in for too long, that could be affecting his calcium intake/absorption. Getting him outside for some sunlight will also help his calcium and overall health greatlly, if you can.

Arcadia lights last a lot longer than other lights, probably a year or more. Todd of Light Your Reptiles could answer that question.
 
He doesn't really look fat to me. And your husbandry sounds great. How long has his casque been bent? It could be that he was growing, and it became more defined. Also, what are the dimensions of your cage? In the photos, I feel like it looks like he might've outgrown it, but I can't really tell.
 
my veileds casque is bent too. i think it was from him pressing up against things as he was growing/developing, it has a bend at the very top like a bent piece of paper. hes always been supplemented just fine, mbd isnt always the answer. im looking all over yours and its legs look great.
 
That's good to know about the Arcadias :) thanks!

Well, the Dragon Strand site says that size is appropriate for veileds, although I will admit it's smaller than his old one. I don't think he's too big for it necessarily, but I do agree that I need to let him out more.
Unfortunately my cat just had a really expensive emergency, so I have to postpone on getting him a new tree for a few weeks.
I did trim his pothos (the last enclosure pictures are current though) and he has been more active, so it might have been a space/new cage issue.

Honestly I wasn't really worried about the cage size though... I'm really more worried about his weight and if I'm over supplementing or gut feeding improperly, and if that could be a factor in his casque.

It started getting a little bent about a year ago, and I think that's because I was negligent in lowers his vines/plants as he grew. I think I mentioned that in the first post.
I don't really want to say it kept growing, but it grew into the bend, if that makes sense.
 
my veileds casque is bent too. i think it was from him pressing up against things as he was growing/developing, it has a bend at the very top like a bent piece of paper. hes always been supplemented just fine, mbd isnt always the answer. im looking all over yours and its legs look great.

That's what I'm hoping is happening, but it got me worried and I really don't want to over-look or assume something.

Especially when I have the forums as a resource :)
 
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