Veiled Izzy not doing good

[Mesnik]

Cage info:

Cage Type - 36 X 36 x 48 with screen on two sides. Auto-misting. No substrate.

Lighting - two basking spots, one 18 in Repti Sun 5.0. Lights are on at 7:00 AM and off at 7:00PM

Temperature - Temps at basking are 85F and 70F at bottom. Measured with two digital thermometers permanently installed (zillas). Temp at night is around 68/70F

Humidity - Also using zilla digital meter. Around 35 to 45%.

Plants - Ficus & Scheflera

Location - Cage is on a corner, away from traffic. It sits on top of "legs" propping it higher than everything else in the room.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Yemen Veiled. CB 16 months old. I got it when he was 1 month old.

Handling - I handle it about once a month or less for about 5 mins or less. I brought him outside during summer for real Sun.

Feeding - Feeding crickets, gut-loaded with "roach" gut-load from Coastal Silkworms. Also feeding Silkies about every other month. Feeding every three days, about 5 to 8 crickets at a time after he turned 1 year old. Was feeding every day up until 1 year old small crix and silkies about every other months. I cup fed for the first year mixed with free range. After 1 year, I was holding the cup for the first 2 or 3 and releasing the others.

Supplements - Rept-Cal with and without D3, Herptivite and Mineral. Was dusting every day up to 1 year old using Rept-Cal +D3 three times a week and without D3 the other days. Once a month I was dusting with Herptivite and once a month with Mineral (indoor). After 1 year, see schedule attached.

Watering - Three mistings during the day for 10 min @ 7:10AM, 15 min @ 11:00AM and 15 min @ 3:00PM. I saw him drinking a couple of times. Didn't see it very often.

Fecal Description - Never tested for parasites. Droppings have always been white and brown. The white was not running but soft, and the brown was consistent.

History - As you can see in my gallery, he has been always very active. Even though I don't handle him much, I always "tickle" his nose and neck and he seems to like it. When I open the cage in the morning and start cleaning the droppings, he would come down and get right on my face. This past summer he really enjoyed sitting outside.

Current Problem - Two days ago, I noticed that he wasn't moving around as much, just laying on one of the wood branches. This morning he was hanging and his limbs look like the have MBD or are just not strong (maybe is the same thing). I gave him a long warm "shower" in the bathroom, which he seemed to enjoy. He even drank water then. By mid morning, he went down to the floor of the cage for the first time EVER. He slept pretty much all afternoon. I handled him around 6:00PM when I came home. Tried to prop him up high on branches but he couldn't hold himself. I put him back on the floor. He dragged himself around a bit (see some pics attached) and at 7:00PM when light went off he went to sleep.

I am going to bring him in tomorrow to see what can be done.

I have a 180 gal salt-water fish tank that has been running for over 6 years with mostly fish and some corals that are that old. This is my first chameleon and I thought I was going by the book. I am very sad and discouraged...

I don't post too much on the forum but I visit and read everyday!!!

Maybe I should stick to fish...

I have attached here pics of Izzy tonight before he went to bed.


Thanks for all the comments! I hope at least that Izzy is not in pain...

Roberto.

 

[kinyonga]

Looks like he has pretty severe MBD. A visit with the vet is in order if you want him to have the best chance to recover. Sorry to have to tell you that.

 

[Syn]

From the bendy look of things I have to say MBD. You need to get it to the vet immediately.

 

[Kat77]

Oh my. Your chameleon's limbs are destroyed. You need a vet immediately. Yes, he is in pain. He has extremely severe MBD. He needed a vet probably months ago.
I know it is hard for you, you probably feel terrible. Just be sure that you get him some help right away.

 

[BocaJan]

Poor Izzy...that is the worst case of MBD I've seen. I'm sure he is in pain. He can't even walk on his hands. Be prepared for some bad news from the vet tomorrow. I do hope that he can do something, but this has been ongoing for quite awhile. How old is your UV bulb? Is that substrate I see in your cage? Have you been giving him calcium w/out D3 daily?

 

[ColorChanginClick]

That is unbearable to look at, I would have never thought MBD could get that severe. I hope whatever the outcome is his last moments are good enough to make up for what I'm sure has been a painful existence as of late. Good luck.

 

[Mesnik]

I feel bad for not noticing anything earlier. He was always very active moving around his cage. There is no substrate, just that the bottom is painted brown.

Reading the forums and seeing MBD, I always inspected his limbs and never noticed any degradation or difference. It happened sooo fast!!! Obviously I didn't know what I was looking at.

The last 4 month I have not feeding him everyday so no Ca everyday...

This morning when I picked him up and saw what was going on, I had to sit down before fainting on the floor. Very upseting.

As I bought him from a local breeder, I got a recommendation of a vet she uses so he/she is used to chameleons...

I will report back. I still need to find out what went wrong. Right now I don't know if I will get another one but still would like to understand what did I do/not do.

Thanks for support!!

 

[Mesnik]

Just three days ago he was moving up and down and chasing crickets all over!?

Check out these ones taken 17Jan09...

 

[blackbetty]

I had the same thing..One day Betty was just fine, the next she was ont he floor cold and dragging her hind legs.. Needless to say a week after this condition was discovered, she was laid to rest. Im sorry.

 

[Kat77]

You will want to be sure that you thoroughly evaluate everything that could have gone wrong and tweak your husbandry before you consider getting another chameleon, if that is in fact something you are considering. That case of MBD is bad, and I'm sure you don't want to see it again. Good luck! And I hope you have a really really good vet in your area. He probably isn't beyond saving and obviously has some fight left in him.

 

[sageghost]

What area of MI are you in? What Vet are you taking Izzy too?

If you are in the West Michigan area, I know of a vet that has a good deal of cham experience. If you want details, feel free to PM me.

 

[Mesnik]

Kat77

Have you noticed anything wrong on what I posted as far as husbandry?

For sure something is/was wrong as Izzy can tell... but what?! I am most definitely not getting another cham until I understand what needs to be changed...


Sageghost - I PM'd you. I am bringing him to a local vet in my area recommended by the breeder that sold me the cham.

 

[Julirs]

What is the top of your cage made of?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

This is a really interesting case (in my opinion)

He has such a beautiful, tall and well formed casque

Your husbandry is pretty spot on

The UVB tube seems a bit small for the enclosure and it doesn't appear that he could bask under it properly. Juli brings up a good point about the top material.

No plastic or glass is between the chameleon and the UVB light?

You should print out this thread with your husbandry to take with you tomorrow.

Good Luck ... I'm a little mystified, especially after seeing the pictures taken only a few days ago.

Please keep us updated.

-Brad

 

[Mesnik]

Juli & Brad - thanks for the time.

The top is screen. The inside of the UVB canopy is painted silver so to spread more light. I also thought the bulb was small but from all I read and some posts I was told it was enough. Maybe it needed to be closer to the basking area?

I am heading out to the vet right now and will report back for sure...

Good idea about printing this thread!!

 

[Syn]

Best of luck to you.. I hope something can be done about Izzy.

 

[lyanlynn]

He is definitely beautiful and I can't believe the difference a few days can make, but then again with Grabby a few days meant her life. So, hopefully the vet can give you hope and give Izzy the best treatment out there and he can resume his love of cricket hunting!

 

[Mesnik]

Thanks for all of you that are supporting and encouraging!!

So we made a trip to see the Dr. today. They took X-Rays and blood sample.

The boy managed to have fractures in all legs. The only thing I can think of is he either fell from one branch to another, or, yesterday morning, when he went down to the bottom of the cage (I say him going) he kept trying to go back up...

The X-Rays also showed that his bones do need more calcium, but they are not that bad at all. The vet kept looking at me like I dropped him from the top of a building! I barely handle him...

Anyway, they gave him liquid calcium and a pain killer (I will attach a pic of them here).

They told me to put him on a flat tub for about the next two months so he won't try to climb or move too much. I already set it up with his UVB and heat light.

They will call me in a few days with the blood work results. They told me that the lack of calcium could be coming from a liver infecction or from the lack of supplemented calcium. They said the results should rule out the liver and other issues.

I still stand firm that I gave him plenty of crickets dusted with Ca and plenty of silkies. I need to found out how much is too much.

Now is just a matter or nursing and wait for his recovery, which seems like it has lots of potential!!!

Once again, thanks for everyone that are sharing this with us!

Roberto

 

[BocaJan]

I do hope he recovers. I hope the doc's Rx works.

 

[blackbetty]

That is great news and "most" with MBD dont come back from it so its awesome that it is not that. Good luck to you and kudos for being so caring about your cham to take proper procedure and do best by him.