Veiled tested plants that are NOT in the “safe plants list”

[Sonny13]

My ladies tend to eat their plants a lot. One does so more voraciously than the other and often has eaten some down to the nub, almost totally defoliating her enclosure. My male also enjoys his leafy snacks as evidenced by the bite marks on his plants. Going by the bite marks, it seems pothos and especially hibiscus are their favorites.

Maybe her appetite will come again, with time. For now doesn´t look at any, while in her smaller enclosure she did tear everything apart.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

The plants designated "veiled tested" are empirically tested. That's what "veiled tested" means.

From: https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/

One of the questions we chameleon people ask is what is safe for Veiled chameleons to eat. They seem to be able to safely more plants than we expect, but there is no definitive list. Therefore we rely on the community to pool our collected experiences. On this summary sheet some plant profiles have a “Veiled Tested” label. These are plants that we have had reports from the community of a Veiled Chameleon taking a bite of that plant (and surviving).

Also, empirical testing can be—but is not always/necessarily—scientific; that's essentially what clinical trials are. Oversimplifying, if xx,000 people take an experimental drug and don't die, it's safe. If that drug also does what it's supposed to do, then it's safe & effective.

From: https://www.nature.com/articles/132841a0

AN empirical science is either one which, as the term implies, is supported by the evidence of the senses, or one which is built up out of the elements of experience.

 

[Peperoni]

From: https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/


Also, empirical testing can be—but is not always/necessarily—scientific; that's essentially what clinical trials are. Oversimplifying, if xx,000 people take an experimental drug and don't die, it's safe. If that drug also does what it's supposed to do, then it's safe & effective.

From: https://www.nature.com/articles/132841a0

As Beman said, I can’t say for sure that my begonia is safe for chams to eat long term just because he didn’t immediately die or get sick. I can’t assume there haven’t been any consequences just because I can’t see a change in his health/behaviour rn. Because with that mindset it is veiled tested but not in a proper way, since a lot of factors have to be taken into account to be able to say to others with certainty that its ok. Of course things can be empirically tested in a scientific way, but some protocols have to be in place, thats why i called it non scientific. Since i personally can’t make an actual study even though id love to, im curious and content to just hear other people’s experiences from the forum

 

[GrayMadder]

Id rather not risk it... I invested A LOT of money on my boy and his set up. But thats just me.

 

[jamest0o0]

Look up the toxin in the plant. Some are just surface irritants, others can do longterm damage.

 

[Peperoni]

Look up the toxin in the plant. Some are just surface irritants, others can do longterm damage.

thats what confuses me the most! Pothos causes kidney damage/failure (for humans dogs and cats) if consumed long-term or in big quantities, so does begonia. Its the calcium oxalate crystals in both that cause the toxicity

 

[Peperoni]

Look up the toxin in the plant. Some are just surface irritants, others can do longterm damage.

Correct me if im wrong though, i just googled searched those while trying to figure out why one is safe and the other might not be, i could definitely be wrong

 

[GrayMadder]

thats what confuses me the most! Pothos causes kidney damage/failure (for humans dogs and cats) if consumed long-term or in big quantities, so does begonia. Its the sodium oxalate crystals in both that cause the toxicity

*stops chewing and slowly puts pothos down*

 

[Peperoni]

*stops chewing and slowly puts pothos down*

Hahahaha im pretty sure chams arent affected from those so they can chew in piece at least from pothos! So many factors are into play, some plants are toxic to cats but not dogs, some others to cats and dogs but not horses... Nature is complicated

 

[jamest0o0]

thats what confuses me the most! Pothos causes kidney damage/failure (for humans dogs and cats) if consumed long-term or in big quantities, so does begonia. Its the calcium oxalate crystals in both that cause the toxicity

I agree with you, I've wondered the same thing. I'd imagine most wild plants in their native habitats are toxic in some way too. If the toxin is the same as other safely used plants(and in similar quantities if you are able to find that out), then I wouldn't worry too much m.

 

[Peperoni]

I agree with you, I've wondered the same thing. I'd imagine most wild plants in their native habitats are toxic in some way too. If the toxin is the same as other safely used plants(and in similar quantities if you are able to find that out), then I wouldn't worry too much m.

Ok so from what i understood, there are two types of toxicities. One is from soluble oxalate and the other from insoluble. The insoluble is found in pothos,philodendron etc and the soluble in plants like begonia and some fruits and vegetables like rhubarb . “After ingestion, soluble oxalates are quickly absorbed into the bloodstream and can cause systemic problems, versus insoluble oxalate crystals which are associated with surface irritation of the skin and the gastrointestinal tract.”
Soluble oxalates enter the bloodstream and bind to calcium and magnesium, but get filtered by the kidneys. These however can cause longterm kidney issues if consumed in big quantities.
Insoluble oxalates are mostly irritants.
“Soluble oxalates are associated with hypocalcemia, kidney failure, and other systemic problems. Insoluble oxalate crystals cause severe irritation and swelling in the oral cavity and gastrointestinal tract if ingested.”
Sorry for the long post, got carried away
On other news, i will be repotting my begonia tomorrow

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Id rather not risk it... I invested A LOT of money on my boy and his set up. But thats just me.

No it's not. Many of us will not take those kinds of risks.

 

[Casket_Case]

thats what confuses me the most! Pothos causes kidney damage/failure (for humans dogs and cats) if consumed long-term or in big quantities, so does begonia. Its the calcium oxalate crystals in both that cause the toxicity

Those crystals aggravate our skin too. When I lived in Florida I was like ten and my cousin and I ran around her backyard and trekked through elephant ears and we’d tear them down and run around with them wacking each other with them and our hands would always get super super super itchy, I know now it was the Calcium Oxalate crystals.