EveryGreen
Established Member
can dehydration cause what he is talking about? it could be a mixture of dehydration and being sick. i would listen to @jajeanpierre.
Very Concerned
- Thread starter TheAmazingGerby
- Start date
EveryGreen
Established Member
he could also be dehydrated from being sick
TheAmazingGerby
Member
I thought his skin looked a little tight. He's fresh from a shed, so i thought maybe it was normal. I mist him as often as possible, especially when I do spot misting to get some water or nearby leaves for him to drink. Thanks for the light schedule recommendation. I'll try that.
K_Wolf
Avid Member
I don't know what vet you took him to, but there is clearly something wrong. Everything you're doing seems to be dead on almost perfect, from what I read you take great care of him......which is making this entire situation very confusing to me. He does look dehydrated....yet you say you see him drink....and urate is normal. If you hadn't been taking such great care of him, I'd say it looks and sounds like MBD. Take him to see another vet, he isn't healthy, that's visible.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
The thing is, that was the only vet anywhere close to me that had a doctor that "specialized" in reptiles. She, for the most part, sounded like she knew what she was talking about, but she also said that she had to out-source a few of my questions and concerns to another vet. That vet is hours away, and sadly my work and school schedule don't allow me to take that time out to make long drives. And the vet isn't open on the weekend when I have off. I'm doing so much research of nearby vets to get another opinion.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
It's hard for me right now to take his cage outside right now. On Monday it was 80 degrees, but the last few days we've been lucky if the highest temp is 50. But once it's warm, I'm going to take him outside and do that.
EveryGreen
Established Member
thats why i was so confused
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
There could be a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with you and your care. It might be something that was wrong with the husbandry before you got him.
Did you have a fecal done? Coccidia can really knock them down fast. The other parasites are not likely to cause much of a problem and certainly not a sudden problem.
Briguy234
Member
How often do you administer your supplements? Because a 5.0 cfl bulb is not powerful at all.
As for plants I recommend hibiscus, umbrella plant, ficus, and pothos.
Also instead of bringing him outstanding de and misting him for an hour just put him in a houseplant and put him in the shower for 10 minutes, do this every week or every other week.
However it's probably not drinking related due to the urate being white. Keep an eye on him and see if he gets worse,at this moment my best geuss is coccadia or some other parasite.
Hope this helps.
As for plants I recommend hibiscus, umbrella plant, ficus, and pothos.
Also instead of bringing him outstanding de and misting him for an hour just put him in a houseplant and put him in the shower for 10 minutes, do this every week or every other week.
However it's probably not drinking related due to the urate being white. Keep an eye on him and see if he gets worse,at this moment my best geuss is coccadia or some other parasite.
Hope this helps.
Briguy234
Member
Also have your vet do fecals. Even if she doesn't wholly know what she's talking about she can still spot parasites and some infections.
K_Wolf
Avid Member
Good catch @jajeanpierre , I didn't even think of that. Parasites can be really nasty and often times will be present but not be evident until they get vicious....could have been carrying something when you got him or he could have picked something up from a feeder insect. Definetly get him in and have a fecal checkup, some bloodwork is more costly but I usually do it yearly since it's thorough.
As far as supplements go (I know someone mentioned it earlier) from what you have down on that info post, I can safely say that he's getting enough. That's a great dusting routine if you ask me, although I do give my babies some additional D3. Keep doing what you're doing with that.
Not gonna lie, you're probably going to have to sacrifice either school or work for a little bit....could be one day, could be a week. Regaurdless, a sick chameleon should always have someone around to attend to it (when I could not be around, my neighbor who adores reptiles has, in the past, stayed at my house until he made a full recovery). My biggest concerns are always dehydration and appetite swings, perhaps im a little over zealous with that but I worry when I'm not around. Make sure he's drinking!!!!! If he's weak, you may have to help him out by using a dropper.
As far as supplements go (I know someone mentioned it earlier) from what you have down on that info post, I can safely say that he's getting enough. That's a great dusting routine if you ask me, although I do give my babies some additional D3. Keep doing what you're doing with that.
Not gonna lie, you're probably going to have to sacrifice either school or work for a little bit....could be one day, could be a week. Regaurdless, a sick chameleon should always have someone around to attend to it (when I could not be around, my neighbor who adores reptiles has, in the past, stayed at my house until he made a full recovery). My biggest concerns are always dehydration and appetite swings, perhaps im a little over zealous with that but I worry when I'm not around. Make sure he's drinking!!!!! If he's weak, you may have to help him out by using a dropper.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
I just had a fecal done on him a few days ago and it was parasite free. I'm starting to think that something was probably wrong with him before I even got him.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
He get calcium with out d3 pretty much every day, and calcium with d3 twice a month, sometimes I'll give him a little more than that. I'll also give him vitamins when I feel that it's needed
Briguy234
Member
It seems last ke nothing is wrong, but something obviously is. Since it's probably not dehydration, parasites, over or under supplementation, or any other common thing I would have to geuss that it's either a bacterial or viral infection. I don't know a lot about this subject in chameleons so I can't help you from here other than telling your vet to check for signs of an infection, sorry if this isn't much help.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
Thank you so much, this was a big help.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
A baby failing to thrive can be any one of a number of reasons and you may never know. If you give chameleons good care, proper humidity, reduce their stress levels and proper housing they should thrive. When they don't, and you can't find the obvious problem like a cocciddia infection, it gets really hard to find out what is wrong. Sometimes after they die and you open them up, you go, oh, now I understand. Sometimes there doesn't seem to be any reason.
My gut feeling--this is just a guess--is that he suffered serious dehydration at some point in his life that caused kidney damage and it is only now that you are seeing the effects. That's a guess based on knowing how many people keep chameleons in too dry and environment with too little water. Babies are much more susceptible to dehydrating than adults. If you overheat day-old chicks once, a large percentage of them will often go on to develop gout which is the end result of kidney failure.
Your vet does not seem to be listening to you so I would find another vet. I have often taken in sick animals to my vet and she has remarked at how good they look. She only sees them when they are putting a lot of energy into avoiding getting eaten by us big predators, so of course they appear strong and vital. My vet will also listen to me and believe me when I say, not, he's not right, this is what he is like at home, even when it contradicts what she thinks she sees with her own eyes.
If I were trying to save this guy, I would go to another vet and ask for subcutaneous fluids. That will get him over the hump of being dehydrated. When dehydrated, they won't eat. Actually, you really don't want them to eat when they are dehydrated anyway. See if that gets him over whatever problem he has.
The vet might also just give him a round of antibiotics. Contrary to what most people on this forum believe, many vets--board certified zoo vets, etc.--will try antibiotics when they haven't a clue. It is important that the antibiotic be one that is not toxic to kidneys. Many are. He must be hydrated before you start any medication and he must stay hydrated during the treatment.
If I am giving oral meds, I will measure the dosage and add water. Now, you have to be careful of the dosage when you are adding water. I hope you are good at arithmetic because you need to be. The vet will prescribe a tiny dose, say .02 mls based on his weight. If you pull medicine up the little syringe to .02 mls and then pull it further into the body of the syringe, you will find that there is about .06 mls in total in the syringe because there is .04mls of dead space at the tip. Keep that in mind. When I dilute meds, I pull a multiple of the dosage into the syringe. For .02mls, I will use the dead space .4mls because it is so easy to work with. Pull meds into the syringe, get the air out and empty the syringe. That leaves medication only in the dead space of the syringe tip. Pull the plunger back to make sure of the amount left in. In other words, measure all the medication in the syringe in the body of the syringe so there is nothing in the tip's dead space. When I know exactly how much medication is in the syringe, I will pull up water to dilute it by a known amount and then get rid of the excess. In my .02ml example, I will use the .04mls of meds in the dead space of the tip and depending on the size of the animal, carefully add even numbers of tenths of a mls. If you are not good at understanding the arithmetic behind ratios, don't try it as you will likely go wrong.
Hope that helps.
My gut feeling--this is just a guess--is that he suffered serious dehydration at some point in his life that caused kidney damage and it is only now that you are seeing the effects. That's a guess based on knowing how many people keep chameleons in too dry and environment with too little water. Babies are much more susceptible to dehydrating than adults. If you overheat day-old chicks once, a large percentage of them will often go on to develop gout which is the end result of kidney failure.
Your vet does not seem to be listening to you so I would find another vet. I have often taken in sick animals to my vet and she has remarked at how good they look. She only sees them when they are putting a lot of energy into avoiding getting eaten by us big predators, so of course they appear strong and vital. My vet will also listen to me and believe me when I say, not, he's not right, this is what he is like at home, even when it contradicts what she thinks she sees with her own eyes.
If I were trying to save this guy, I would go to another vet and ask for subcutaneous fluids. That will get him over the hump of being dehydrated. When dehydrated, they won't eat. Actually, you really don't want them to eat when they are dehydrated anyway. See if that gets him over whatever problem he has.
The vet might also just give him a round of antibiotics. Contrary to what most people on this forum believe, many vets--board certified zoo vets, etc.--will try antibiotics when they haven't a clue. It is important that the antibiotic be one that is not toxic to kidneys. Many are. He must be hydrated before you start any medication and he must stay hydrated during the treatment.
If I am giving oral meds, I will measure the dosage and add water. Now, you have to be careful of the dosage when you are adding water. I hope you are good at arithmetic because you need to be. The vet will prescribe a tiny dose, say .02 mls based on his weight. If you pull medicine up the little syringe to .02 mls and then pull it further into the body of the syringe, you will find that there is about .06 mls in total in the syringe because there is .04mls of dead space at the tip. Keep that in mind. When I dilute meds, I pull a multiple of the dosage into the syringe. For .02mls, I will use the dead space .4mls because it is so easy to work with. Pull meds into the syringe, get the air out and empty the syringe. That leaves medication only in the dead space of the syringe tip. Pull the plunger back to make sure of the amount left in. In other words, measure all the medication in the syringe in the body of the syringe so there is nothing in the tip's dead space. When I know exactly how much medication is in the syringe, I will pull up water to dilute it by a known amount and then get rid of the excess. In my .02ml example, I will use the .04mls of meds in the dead space of the tip and depending on the size of the animal, carefully add even numbers of tenths of a mls. If you are not good at understanding the arithmetic behind ratios, don't try it as you will likely go wrong.
Hope that helps.
TheAmazingGerby
Member
I got him from a credible breeder in my area that also owns a pet store. He specializes in reptiles.
K_Wolf
Avid Member
I agree with this. Get him some serious help, fluids, and hope for the best.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Talk to him about your problems.
