Very Strange Behavior

TheDOMINATOR

New Member
Hello all. I have a 5-6 month old male veiled I purchased a couple months ago, from one of the sponsors here. Today he's been showing very unusual behavior. Lately, the weather starting to get colder, he's been sticking in or near his basking area with occasional excursions to the cooler side of his cage (a screen 16x16x24) and the middle regions where the fairly dense foliage from two coleus plants is. He's usually pretty active, and displays very vibrant greens and yellows, except for when he's basking, during which he stays brown.

Today, however, is a different story. I fed him his normal 8-10 crickets dusted with a mixture of calcium (no d3) and DinoFuel and left him alone for a while. A couple hours later, which at this point was about an hour ago, I went in to spray the cage -- very lightly -- with a deodorizer solution (from Healthy Habitats) that is all natural and safe to use while animals are still in their cages. I do this about once every two weeks and again, I spray very delicately.

So anyway, I walk away for about fifteen minutes and then walk in to check on him and he's just sitting on a vine near the very front of the cage, motionless, both eyes locked on me. I moved my head to the right then to the left a little, and his head followed me. It was like a bizarre staredown. And he was the darkest brown, black even, I've ever seen him. Usually he shies right away from me but I put out my hand to about two inches from his face...and he didn't budge. Which is so weird and completely unlike him.

Eventually I took out my phone and held it up to him to take a picture, and he still didn't budge at first, but then without warning jumped in a flash and fell to the bottom of the cage! He appears to be ok, he landed on his feet, but still, it was weird. I later realized it was probably because of the apple on my phone which shows a perfect reflection. Probably freaked the poor guy out.

Anyway, does anyone have a similar story or any suggestions as to what just happened? Or is this actually normal? One last detail is that today I successfully hand fed him for the first time ever, but before the picture taking fiasco I held out another insect and he didn't respond.

Any ideas? Here's a pic. Thank you.
 

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Sounds pretty normal to me. They can be strange animals sometimes and weird things can suddenly startle them.

Hand feeding! that is great news.
 
16x16x24 seems small for a 6month old veiled...

Mine is already in his 24x24x48 and seems very happy with it. He's the same age as yours or thereabouts.
 
Keep up posted..

I would also like to know your temperatures and your light manufacturer type and wattage|Voltage.

I would associate that colour with needing heat/light.

I also wonder how much the temp go's down during and after spray.

If we can rule out these, then that leaves us with the option to monitor, if no improvement and or stops eating and drinking then vet.
 
Hello all again. I'm just returning home from being out for the evening and the little guy seems fine. But his behavior earlier is still concerning me. I guess it's not so much a concern as it is a curiosity as to what would make him act that way.

@Viv
I apologize, the size of his cage is 16x16x30, not 16x16x24. He's still a fairly small guy and the enclosure seems large enough, at least to me. I could be wrong but I've read that chams are fine and happy in habitats that size until 8 months old to close to a year. Is this not accurate? Not including his tail, my cham is about 5" long.

@Scoobthenoob
Most of my setup I got from the same site I got the cham himself from, FLChams. I got the "complete kit" which includes:
Cage 16 x 16 x 30
60 Watt Heat Bulb
5 1/2" Clamp Lamp
20" Fluorescent Fixture
Reptisun 5.0 18" Fluorescent Bulb
Exo Terra Vine - Small
Exo Terra Large Ampallo Plastic Leaves
Zoo Med Calcium w/ D3
Reptivite
Zoo Med Digital Thermometer
Reptile Spray Bottle

However I replaced the 60 watt bulb with a 25 watt as the temps were far too high. His basking area is 84-85F with temps in cooler areas toward the middle and bottom of the cage ranging from 71-76F. I have central air and during these colder months usually have the heat on a minimum of 68.

In addition to all that, I got some calcium powder w/o D3 and Repashy Superpig and DinoFuel which I found via these forums. I dust with the D3 cal twice a month, Reptivite twice a month, and rotate between the DinoFuel mixed with cal w/o D3 and Superpig mixed with cal w/o D3 at every other feeding. I also purchased a couple of live coleus plants and a piece of driftwood to put in his habitat, which my cham loves and is always climbing around on.

Here are some pics of my setup:

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A close-up of my little man to really show his size compared to the size of his domain:

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His basking area:

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And the lower region of the enclosure:

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And one more, the little dude as I'm typing this, getting ready for bed:

SnwFEq.png
 
This is my own personal preference, but others may agree. I would make that basking area pretty bare. Only having several branches at several different levels. Nice set up! I just wouldn't have so much stuff touching the top of the cage. Especially in the basking area. Veileds burn their casques very easy. I'd turn your UVB to where it goes straight across and not diagonally. That will give him several different temps in his cage and an area where he can be at the top not basking or getting UVB.



As for the odd behavior- they are odd creatures :) if your super concerned- take him to your vet and get him checked out. That's the easiest way to get assurance.
 
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Not a critique of your care or setup- this is only meant as a response to your query about the "strange" behaviour.

Probably your chameleon has hit an age when hormones start to play more of a role. Some veileds become aggressive or fearful of humans once they grow to a certain maturity. The behaviour you are describing- both eyes locked on you and then dropping to the bottom of the cage- is defensive, fearful behaviour.

Something that will probably help- try hand feeding all food items and no handling or touching the lizard for a while. It may take patience because of his fear response, but after a while he will grow more and more confident. Eventually you will find that when you enter the room, he moves to the front of his cage with both eyes locked on you looking eagerly for a handout, rather than dropping to the floor.
 
Thank you for the thoughtful replies everyone. I can't tell you how much of a help this site has been throughout this whole experience. I really am having a blast with my cham. :)

I just measured my temps at the basking area and it's a pretty solid 84F. I've read that for young chams this is ideal but as they mature they can tolerate and actually prefer higher temps. For my cham, being around the six month old mark now, should I consider warmer temps? The bulb I use is only 25 watts and is suspended roughly two inches from the top of the cage. I had been considering getting a 40 watt for a little while but decided to wait it out a bit longer. I have a 50 watt but that produces temps around 90-91F. Is this too hot, or am I better off picking up a 40 watt and playing around with different heights from the top of the cage?

@Juliaf3
You're absolutely right and I agree. That plant I have there that you see touching the top of the cage went on a recent growth spurt. :p I've been meaning to trim (or just push) it down. Luckily my cham is too heavy to sit on its leaves so he's not in danger of resting that close to the bulb, but he could still potentially climb the stalk, so I'm definitely going to fix it. About my UVB fixture being diagonally set up, that was a product basically of me being terrified of him not getting enough UVB. For the first few days I had the little guy, I had the fixture going long-ways across the top, but it looked to me like too much of the cage was just bare, with no light or UVB at all that way, so I decided to change. He still has a fairly good-sized corner of the cage that isn't being hit by the UVB with a few branches and leaves to crawl around on there. Should I not worry as much about it and just put it horizontally again?

@fluxlizard
Thanks for your input. Yeah, I'm definitely going to continue to hand feed.

And yeah Psychobunny, that's good to know. He had only fallen one other time during the two months I've had him. Luckily both times he's landed on his feet. I swear my cham is part cat. :p
 
With some experience, you will know when/if they are going to suicide drop. You can see the signs of it coming.
When that happens, it's best to just turn and walk slowly away! ;)
 
My male vieled does the same lol. If I open his cage door he will either tur very bright and lunge and his at me or if I stand near to where he is basking he will sometimes turn dark with both eyes focused straight on me and follow my every move (obviously doesn't like me being near him) haha. Vieleds really are strange :p
 
Nah- if he can get away from the light he is fine. I also agree with the age and hormone issues flux is talking about. My panther had only did the suicide flop once. Right around the time he became a man. Scared me so bad I didn't handle him for quite some time. Just hand fed. Hand feeding is the way to go to show you aren't a threat.
 
All right. Thanks again for the responses everyone. I'll have to take his weird behavior with a grain of salt next time. :p

The only thing really I'm still torn with is whether or not to upgrade from a 25 watt basking bulb to a 40 watt. Again, basking temps are around 84F but since he's getting bigger and recently hit the six (ish) month old mark, I'm wondering if I should aim for 87-88F now?
 
All right. Thanks again for the responses everyone. I'll have to take his weird behavior with a grain of salt next time. :p

The only thing really I'm still torn with is whether or not to upgrade from a 25 watt basking bulb to a 40 watt. Again, basking temps are around 84F but since he's getting bigger and recently hit the six (ish) month old mark, I'm wondering if I should aim for 87-88F now?

If he's active, growing, eating and moving around normally the temp is probably OK. If the temp is on the cool side for him you will probably see him basking longer, maybe not eating as much and possibly less active. Winter may affect the cage temp cycle too.

Just wait until he decides to do the suicide drop in front of a friend or at the vet's office! You'll feel terrible I guarantee it. My T. deremensis was a master at this. I would always feel that the horrified onlookers assumed I was torturing this panicking animal.
 
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