Vet couldn't give me answers.. need yours.

[happiness]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon Panther Chameleon, Female. I've had her for about 9 months now.
Handling - Rarely, once a month maybe?
Feeding - Stick bugs, maybe 2 little ones a day and I throw in a few roaches and a superworm hoping she'll eat them. I feed my feeders any fruits I have, oranges, a lot of carrots, romaine lettuce, collard greens,
Supplements - Rep cal without D3, with D3 and multivitamins. dust the stick bugs I put in her cage, without the D3 everyday, with D3 twice a month and multivitamins twice a month.
Watering - Mistking, 4 times a day about 2-3 minutes each time. I put a water dripper that lasts about 20 minutes or so. I rarely see her drink
Fecal Description - Runny, a lot (she doesn't poop often) white/yellow urates and not tested.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? 18x18x36 screen
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Regular light bulb for heat, arcadia d3 12% uvb bulb. On around 9am off around 9pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 85F near basking, overnight temp is about 73-75.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Around 70, using mister
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Yes, hanging pothos
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? About 3 feet off the floor in a closet, not high traffic area. No fans or airvents.
Location - Where are you geographically located? East Coast

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

My female panther has been showing signs of what I thought to be upper respiratory infection. Sometimes I'll see her gape and she makes a popping sound. A lot of times her underchin puffs up for no reason and she'll leave it this way. (The vet said its because the chameleons moving its tongue around?) A few months ago I posted saying I wanted to take her to the vet.. though soon later she began to be doing better and stopped gaping and puffing so I decided not to.. Now its back again and it seems to be worse. She does it more often. I'll be here on the computer and hear her gasp very loudly, like shes pulling in air. When she does this, she opens her mouth, with her underchin puffed and breaths in heavily (sometimes making the crackling nose with it). When I took her to the vet, I heard her do it once in the box before I opened and showed her to the man. She didn't do it while he was there. He checked her throat and said that her ear way was cleared (i think it was the ear way) and that she should be breathing fine. Since he didn't know what it was, he decided to prescribe something to kill the bacteria if there was one, he said it didn't work to call him. This worries me. I read on here that peoples chameleons died from the use of medicine to treat something.. why should I give her this medication if it may not even be helpful? He gave me Baytril..He said it shouldn't be hard on her.. but I don't want to give it to her till I get some forum members answers.

A few weeks ago I also noticed yellow hard crust around her nose (no longer present). She doesn't have any bubbling and I don't really see the stringy saliva. About a month ago she would eat anything I gave her, even by hand. Now she won't eat any roaches, only stick bugs, occasionally superworms and beetles.


Male panther chameleon

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? 9 months, Panther nosybe chameleon male
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Almost every day, he ALWAYS wants out. I feel bad watching him smash his face against the cage so I open the door and free him.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? I put a few superworms into his cage, once in a while I'll see him eat one. I have roaches in the cage as well but he won't touch them. This one is VERY PICKY and it stresses me out. He rarely eats and that scares me. I'll catch him eating dirt from a plant outside of the cage when I set him on it.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Because he rarely eats and only eats superworms (once in a while) I have a hard time getting him supplements..
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I always see him drinking. I have a dripper going for about 20-30 minutes daily as well.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Dark brown, white urates,

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen
Lighting - arcadia 6% UVB, Same schedule as female
Temperature - 90 basking, 70-75 night temp
Humidity - around 70 using mistking
Plants - Umbrella tree,
Placement - Same closet as panther chameleon, covered of course (they can't see eachother, not a high traffic area at all. On a shelf a little lower than the panther chameleon about 3 inches maybe

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

My male panther chameleon, has a hard mass in his eye. I'm guessing this could be from dust that got stuck in the eye and built up overtime. The person I bought him from said that he was born with it. I can turn the mass 360 degrees, If it was a tumor or something, wouldn't it not move at all? The vet told me it couldn't be from dust and that he had no idea what it was. Said he had to ask someone else and would let me know. About 2 weeks ago I witnessed him grab his other good eye, stretching his eyelid! I thought he was going to rip his eyelid off, I was so scared!! He was yanking it as far as he could. I've also seen him rub both eyes on branches.

...Since I'll probably have to come back to the vet when he finds out what the eye bulge is, do you think I'll be charged extra just for showing up again? Would it count as a vet visit? I feel like I've wasted over $100 to show this vet my chameleons just for him to tell me he didn't know or thought she was okay. I would never ask for my money back but I don't want to end up having to go back for nothing again and feel obligated to pay more money.

 

[LilBlue]

Hi there, sorry you didn't have the best experience at the vet, that happens too often unfortunately. Baytril is safe, please start using it as directed by your vet(I am currently giving Baytril to my one cham, he is on 0.5CC daily for one month). Baytril is a broad spectrum medicine and can take care of a lot of things, without doing blood work it is the best to use. Baytril is hard on the kidneys, make sure she's drinking and give her lots of showers(my guy has been having a shower every night since starting his medicine).

As for your male...I don't know what that is. Tumors can be loose or attached, less likely to be a dangerous tumor if it moves freely. If he had dust in his eye, and the lump grew that large I would assume there would be more obvious symptoms of infection(besides the eye rubbing, which he is probably doing because it's uncomfortable).

I'd type more but it's quitting time, i'll check back in later

 

[Carlton]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon Panther Chameleon, Female. I've had her for about 9 months now.
Handling - Rarely, once a month maybe?
Feeding - Stick bugs, maybe 2 little ones a day and I throw in a few roaches and a superworm hoping she'll eat them. I feed my feeders any fruits I have, oranges, a lot of carrots, romaine lettuce, collard greens,
Supplements - Rep cal without D3, with D3 and multivitamins. dust the stick bugs I put in her cage, without the D3 everyday, with D3 twice a month and multivitamins twice a month.
Watering - Mistking, 4 times a day about 2-3 minutes each time. I put a water dripper that lasts about 20 minutes or so. I rarely see her drink
Fecal Description - Runny, a lot (she doesn't poop often) white/yellow urates and not tested.

Some of the symptoms you described can be a URI. If the URI was getting worse, she would probably be bubbling and show the sticky saliva at this stage.


My female panther has been showing signs of what I thought to be upper respiratory infection. Sometimes I'll see her gape and she makes a popping sound. A lot of times her underchin puffs up for no reason and she'll leave it this way.

They will also puff out their throat (the gular area) as part of a visual threat. But, a sick cham with an ongoing URI won't eat, will sit unmoving, won't drink, and may sit under the basking light showing a darker color for hours. They often rest with their snout pointed straight up to make breathing easier.

(The vet said its because the chameleons moving its tongue around?) A few months ago I posted saying I wanted to take her to the vet.. though soon later she began to be doing better and stopped gaping and puffing so I decided not to.. Now its back again and it seems to be worse. She does it more often. I'll be here on the computer and hear her gasp very loudly, like shes pulling in air. When she does this, she opens her mouth, with her underchin puffed and breaths in heavily (sometimes making the crackling nose with it). When I took her to the vet, I heard her do it once in the box before I opened and showed her to the man. She didn't do it while he was there.

Its "airway". If he didn't see mucous in her mouth or throat, clear nasal passages this may be correct. Vets often prescribe the broad spectrum antibiotic Baytril to start treating a suspected bacterial infection. The problem is, without culturing any sample swabs it is hard to know if that would be the most effective drug for the particular bacteria present. Baytril is hard on the kidneys, so she will need extra hydration to avoid damage. Chams are notorious for hiding health problems until they are quite serious. That's why the treatments aren't always effective. The vet didn't give you wrong information, but it is difficult to be certain having only seen them one time.

A few weeks ago I also noticed yellow hard crust around her nose (no longer present). She doesn't have any bubbling and I don't really see the stringy saliva. About a month ago she would eat anything I gave her, even by hand. Now she won't eat any roaches, only stick bugs, occasionally superworms and beetles.


Male panther chameleon

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? 9 months, Panther nosybe chameleon male
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Almost every day, he ALWAYS wants out. I feel bad watching him smash his face against the cage so I open the door and free him.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? I put a few superworms into his cage, once in a while I'll see him eat one. I have roaches in the cage as well but he won't touch them. This one is VERY PICKY and it stresses me out. He rarely eats and that scares me. I'll catch him eating dirt from a plant outside of the cage when I set him on it.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Because he rarely eats and only eats superworms (once in a while) I have a hard time getting him supplements..
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I always see him drinking. I have a dripper going for about 20-30 minutes daily as well.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Dark brown, white urates,

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen
Lighting - arcadia 6% UVB, Same schedule as female
Temperature - 90 basking, 70-75 night temp
Humidity - around 70 using mistking
Plants - Umbrella tree,
Placement - Same closet as panther chameleon, covered of course (they can't see eachother, not a high traffic area at all. On a shelf a little lower than the panther chameleon about 3 inches maybe

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

My male panther chameleon, has a hard mass in his eye. I'm guessing this could be from dust that got stuck in the eye and built up overtime. The person I bought him from said that he was born with it. I can turn the mass 360 degrees, If it was a tumor or something, wouldn't it not move at all? The vet told me it couldn't be from dust and that he had no idea what it was. Said he had to ask someone else and would let me know. About 2 weeks ago I witnessed him grab his other good eye, stretching his eyelid! I thought he was going to rip his eyelid off, I was so scared!! He was yanking it as far as he could. I've also seen him rub both eyes on branches.

The mass in his eye could be some sort of cyst that may have formed around a bit of dirt, or just something he has always had. I would think if it was some sort of infection or abscess he would show some discharge on the eyelid gluing it shut in the mornings. Not sure what else to suggest here.

...Since I'll probably have to come back to the vet when he finds out what the eye bulge is, do you think I'll be charged extra just for showing up again? Would it count as a vet visit? I feel like I've wasted over $100 to show this vet my chameleons just for him to tell me he didn't know or thought she was okay. I would never ask for my money back but I don't want to end up having to go back for nothing again and feel obligated to pay more money.

I would think that the vet would not charge you just to tell you what the eye problem is. I can see him charging you for an additional visit to TREAT something or to try more options with the female. Vets vary in how they define a followup, an office visit, etc. Often the initial visit is a bit higher as they have a little paperwork and office stuff to do to establish new patients. And, remember you brought him 2 patients too.

 

[kinyonga]

Does she have a place to dig to lay eggs if she needs to?

 

[happiness]

I usually put her egg laying bin in when she needs it, I'll put in it now just in case.

I forgot to add, I've seen her with her eyes closed during the day as well. Not for long periods of time, just occasionally.

" The problem is, without culturing any sample swabs it is hard to know if that would be the most effective drug for the particular bacteria present. Baytril is hard on the kidneys, so she will need extra hydration to avoid damage."

So because the problem isn't certain, is it best to not give her the baytril? I was told to give her .06ML every 12 hours. She rarely drinks water. The other day she was eating a pothos leaf though. The best way that I found to get her to drink is to have the dripper drip onto her mouth and she'll drink that way.

When showering, would you suggest having a light warm sprinkle on her or only on the leaves?

The mass in his eye could be some sort of cyst that may have formed around a bit of dirt, or just something he has always had. I would think if it was some sort of infection or abscess he would show some discharge on the eyelid gluing it shut in the mornings. Not sure what else to suggest here.

Any idea on how much it could cost to have it surgically removed? It looks too big to come out of his eyehole The vet said he'd get back to me once he received information from other people. He said something about putting him to sleep and making a little slit to get it out but he had to make sure what it was first. It would probably make the chameleon happier and me as well.

 

[Carlton]

I usually put her egg laying bin in when she needs it, I'll put in it now just in case.

I forgot to add, I've seen her with her eyes closed during the day as well. Not for long periods of time, just occasionally.



So because the problem isn't certain, is it best to not give her the baytril? I was told to give her .06ML every 12 hours. She rarely drinks water. The other day she was eating a pothos leaf though. The best way that I found to get her to drink is to have the dripper drip onto her mouth and she'll drink that way.

When showering, would you suggest having a light warm sprinkle on her or only on the leaves?



Any idea on how much it could cost to have it surgically removed? It looks too big to come out of his eyehole The vet said he'd get back to me once he received information from other people. He said something about putting him to sleep and making a little slit to get it out but he had to make sure what it was first. It would probably make the chameleon happier and me as well.

I think I would use the Baytril on your female and make sure she's hydrated using your technique with the dripper. Follow through with the whole course. Once in a while a cham reacts badly to Baytril (turns very dark, lethargic, really shut down) but if this is going to happen it will within the first or second day. Most do fine.

If drinking directly from the dripper is the method she prefers, you might be able to teach her to accept water from a hand held dropper. Its a great way to know how much water she's getting each day. Shower her by misting the cage foliage, not her directly to get her in the "mood" to drink, then start dripping the water on her head. That should start her licking and swallowing. Once it works its very reliable. When she's full, she'll tip her head up and turn away from the water.

 

[happiness]

I think I would use the Baytril on your female and make sure she's hydrated using your technique with the dripper. Follow through with the whole course. Once in a while a cham reacts badly to Baytril (turns very dark, lethargic, really shut down) but if this is going to happen it will within the first or second day. Most do fine.

If drinking directly from the dripper is the method she prefers, you might be able to teach her to accept water from a hand held dropper. Its a great way to know how much water she's getting each day. Shower her by misting the cage foliage, not her directly to get her in the "mood" to drink, then start dripping the water on her head. That should start her licking and swallowing. Once it works its very reliable. When she's full, she'll tip her head up and turn away from the water.

Another question, since it says to give her the med every 12 hours and the vet said to give it to her twice a day, would it be okay to give her it every 6 hours? Or would I have to give it to her in the morning when she wakes up and then right before she goes to bed?

 

[Carlton]

Another question, since it says to give her the med every 12 hours and the vet said to give it to her twice a day, would it be okay to give her it every 6 hours? Or would I have to give it to her in the morning when she wakes up and then right before she goes to bed?

I would think its best to space the doses out as much as you can to keep the level in her system a little more stable, so once in the morning and once in early evening (before she's due to be asleep...it might be easier on her to have her metabolism still active when she gets it). Maybe our vets could advise on this?

 

[happiness]

Okay I'll try to do that. I'll start giving her the meds tomorrow.