Vet Visit: Vitamin A Deficiency

[Galaxy]

Earlier in the week I'd noticed Osiris having problems with his eyes. Lots of blinking and rubbing on vines, a bit of fluid in one that I cleared up with some saline solution. He'd also been swallowing a lot.
Being the paranoid 'parent' that I am, I took my VERY angry little lizard into the vet this morning.

We live a short distance from Stah Exotic Animal Veterinary Services (SEAVS.com), and it felt more like checking into a luxury hotel than a vet office!
His majesty did his best to fight off the peasants that were handling him, hissing, head-butting, and chomping at the towel they finally had to wrap him up in.

Vet: He acts more like a veiled than a panther!
Me: Haaa...ha... yeah... he's a grump.

After looking him over and giving him a shot, they made sure to steal him away for a photoshoot!

In the end, I'm having to switch my multivitamin (Herpavite) to Reptivite. Something about the chameleons being unable to absorb the form that Vitamin A comes in for Herpavite.
He has the signs of a respiratory infection beginning.
So, eye drops, Meloxicam, and Enroflaxin Suspen are on the daily regimen for now.
Any input for these meds?

 

[Lovereps]

What a lucky cham to be able to see Dr Stahl.
Your cham is lucky to have you as a concerned cham caretaker, too.
Obviously, he was heading down a bad path, so it's a good thing you got him treated when you did.

Meloxicam can be hard on kidneys, so just be sure to give your cham plenty of water.
Same for the enrofloxacin aka Baytril.

Both are often prescribed for chameleons.

The Dr must feel quite certain about the form of vitamin A used in Reptivite.

Hope your cham is feeling better ASAP!

BTW, love the cham name--Osiris.

 

[shmeenakoz]

This is very interesting! Im thinking I should also switch given Kai's recent issues. Thanks for sharing!! Oh 1 more thing, who makes reptivite?

 

[Lazy Boy]

This is why I use both. I use reptivite and heptivite both once a month. All in all I use 6 different supplements in one month, 3 of which are only once a month. I tend to think of sups like feeders, variety is best. He seems to be in great hands

 

[Galaxy]

I was told to use the reptivite once a week, but I'm puzzlig over if I should keep using the calcium with D3 since the reptivite has D3 in it as well (I was using it every other week in a tag-team with the herpavite).
It's made by zoo med, when I tried to find it at petsmart they didn't even have a spot on the shelves for it, so we had to go clear across town to petco for it.

 

[Lazy Boy]

I got my reptivite without D3. Only D3 I give is Rep-Cal or natural sun light. I must say he is a looker

 

[inlinefourpower]

I don't have anything useful to add to the thread but I really like his colors! I'm not too well versed in Panther Chameleon morphs, what kind is he?

 

[Galaxy]

I got my reptivite without D3. Only D3 I give is Rep-Cal or natural sun light. I must say he is a looker

Hmm... guess I'll have to see if I can find some without D3. Probably have to look online. Rep-Cal is what I usually use too.
And thank you! He really is a handsome guy, at least there's some benefit to owning a grump.

I don't have anything useful to add to the thread but I really like his colors! I'm not too well versed in Panther Chameleon morphs, what kind is he?

It's not so much a morph as it is a 'locale'. They vary according to where on Madagascar their bloodline is originally from.
This guy here is a Blue Bar Ambilobe.

 

[Lazy Boy]

I did need to order mine online. Every pet store only had with D3

 

[ataraxia]

Reptivite and cal-plus both have a preformed source of vitA. Hats off to the vet to know this. At any rate, i would look for the reptivite that is without D3. Cal plus does make a low D3 also.

 

[kinyonga]

Herptivite has beta carotene (a prOformed source of vitamin A) in it while Reptivite has a prEformed source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources cannot build up in the system....prEformed sources can.

Was a blood test done to determine if it was a deficiency?

It's said that some chameleons cannot convert the prOformed sources into vitamin A. If it's true for panthers then why does this Site say "chameleon yolks contained considerably higher levels of carotenoid than levels previously reported and "suggests effective conversion from carotenoid precursers"? If they can't convert it why are there carotenoids in the eggs??
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/zoo.10039/abstract

 

[Lovereps]

I did need to order mine online. Every pet store only had with D3

LLLReptile carries Reptivite without D3.

Kinyonga, are you sure that there actually is a blood test to determine vitamin A levels?

IIRC, the last things I read about it was that a determination of vitamin a levels could only be made via liver biopsy.

 

[kinyonga]

I'm not positive that they can test chameleons for it but they can test many other animals for vitamin A in the blood so I assume they can for chameleons too. I think the testing does not show how much vitamin A is stored in the liver but can indicate overdoses and deficiencies. I think there is a retinol binding protein level test that can be done too. Perhaps ferritinmyshoes (Dayna) or one of the other vets can answer this?

 

[Galaxy]

So far I haven't seen much in way of improvement. Still a good bit of mucus present and still rubbing his eyes on branches. Any timeframe I should be aware of before getting back to the vet?
Also, any tips on giving eye drops to a very aggressive chameleon? This daily rodeo is getting to be a bit much and I'm starting to consider using Osiris to brush up on my hog-tying skills.

 

[Lovereps]

I'd expect to see improvement in a week's time.
I would at least call the vet and let him know.
He may want to see your cham again or perhaps he can simply prescribe new meds without another visit.

 

[kinyonga]

They can do the blood test for turtles so I'm sure they can do it for chameleons but as I said it doesn't show how much is stored in the liver but rather shows low when the liver is almost depleted or when it's overdosed....and its actually a retinol binding protein test.
http://www.vetreferrals.com.au/News/?id=12

 

[Lovereps]

Kinyonga, I knew you'd be able to dig up something relevant in your net wanderings.

Unless the serum levels of A are low, which is not going to occur until the body's stores of A are nearly depleted, the blood test will yield no clue as to the actual levels of vitamin A in the body.

It certainly makes much more sense now, why many vets would rather just give a vitamin A injection and see if it helps.

What is really sad is this line

Very little additional information has become available since Elkan and Zwart (1967) published their comprehensive description of the clinical and histological changes in terrapins with suspected hypovitaminosis A.

Sad to know that in nearly 50 years very little additional research has been done.

 

[kinyonga]

It's all in the wording of the search you do!

 

[Galaxy]

Well, the last few days seem to be promising. All signs of eye and respiratory problems have cleared up.
He's still porking down on any feeders that I give him. He's actually started sitting UNDER the nozzle of his misting system when it turns on, a drastic change for him.
And he's finishing up shedding and showing off some gorgeous pajamas tonight. (Though he gave me a lot of lip when I took him in for a shower session to help him along. )
Overall, he seems to be more energetic and hates my guts due to all the medication battles.
He's a grouch, but I'm ecstatic that he's a healthy grump!