Vieled Cham skin peeling? -thought it was shedding but after 20 hours i'm doubtful

[HairyScaryMark]

MacHameleon Clan?

When I first got him, he could walk across my face without there being any real pain but I wouldn't allow that to happen now. I find if he's happy enough he will settle on my shoulder but if he is worried he will try and climb as high as possible endlessly and never 'settle'.
He usually settled ok when I took him outside.

 

[Goggles]

I think the heat mats are a no-no.
Chameleons sense heat on their backs and would not be able to sense heat through their belly, hence a little cooked lizard.
Terry

 

[HairyScaryMark]

Maybe I just need to monitor the temperature of my room in winter and not let it get too cold although by the sound of it they shouldn't be too effected by it anyway. There are plenty of people here keeping chams in much colder places than where I am.

 

[Goggles]

As stated previously a regular house bulb for heat is fine.
Maybe in the colder months it would be easiest to change from say a 40watt
bulb to a 60 watt to get the desired temperature without having to move the basking branches.
Also for the substrate... I just use paper towel. Reasonably cheap and no risk of chemicals. Who knows what's in the ink used for newsprint.
Terry

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Like I said before (can't believe I am turning into one of 'those' ) get rid of the substrate now. Not when you have used up the spare bag, but now. Yes, it looks nicer, but bark is one of the worst substrates to use. It doesnt look as nice having paper in there, but surely the health of the cham is more important? Anyway, now that's out the way, I use towels which soak up the excess water and are easy enough to replace and wash.

If you have enough climbing stuff in the cage it won't matter about the plant pots. We all have them in at different levels. If you want to avoid loose crickets, cup feed him. That will also make it easier to ensure they are all taken out at the end of the night.

I presume that you are keeping your cham in the house? Does your room temperature get down below 16C? If not, then your cham will be fine at nights. I use a 60w bulb during winter, and when it's hot we go to a 40w. The light is also on a dimmer, which helps control the temps.

You need to monitor your cham, get to know him and his tolerances. Mine for instance, can't handle over 31.5C in his basking light, yet if it is below 30C for any period of time, he gets grumpy and his appetite reduces. You will soon learn about your chams likes, dislikes and tolerances.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

I would think nightime temperatures in winter could get below 16 C. It certainly feels like it to me. Judging what other people say it is probably fine providing I can keep it above freezing and usually it wont go nearly that low.

Is the bark really that much of a problem? It's only been in since Saturday? I thought it was more that bacteria can build up and develop over time?

I've tried to keep most of the crickets contained from soon after I got him but recently have changed to cup feeding with only small locusts allowed to roam free. It is more necessary now as his appetite is not as great as it was.The crickets escape when he knocks over the cups but I make an effort to find the uneaten ones by the end of the day. I generally prefer small crickets as I tend to get a few larvis (which he seems to go for quickly) and the small crickets probably aren't as capable at biting.

I had basking temperatures over 30 C and didn't noticed any ill effects (and he regularly basked and looked as happy as chameleon can look) but have reduced it as other people on here have suggested that was too great a temperature and most of the information I previously saw was in Farenheit so I didn't quite realise exactly what that meant.

I have my heat lamp, which is a 60W spot and is on a dimming thermostat. I also have 2 digital thermometers. One I place near bottom of cage and the other I place in the basking spot to make sure things are going fine.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

The problem with the bark is many things, the main one being the possibility of impaction. If your cham shoots for something, he could catch the bark, which could then be eaten. This can cause problems trying to poop it out. I know it's a lot of "if's", but people on here have lost chams to things like that before. Combine that with the other stuff such as bacteria and mould, it makes most people not use it. Its the same as fake plants; my cham is a real leaf muncher, so I only have real plants and some people have lost their chams when they have eaten fake leaves.

With regards to the temp, i was just trying to use it as an example. There are recommended ranges. My cham personally can't seem to handle higher than 31.5C, yet others do. It's just what i meant about observing your cham and getting to know him. Before long you will know all his likes and dislikes!

 

[Miss Lily]

I agree with WelshOneEmma - please take out the bark chips. As Emma said, the problems lie with the bark being accidentally (or otherwise) ingested. It will either cause impaction (blocking the intestines) or if he does manage to poop it out it may cause a prolapse. Either way, it's not worth the risk. I have an offcut of vinyl flooring in the bottom of Amy's cage which I have sealed in with aquarium silicon it's very easy to keep clean. I also put paper towels along the back wall at the bottom to soak up any run-off when misting.

Also, with the amount of water in the cage from misting 2 or 3 times a day, the bark chips will become mouldy - mould spores and a constantly damp environment are not good. The cage should dry out between mistings and I would think that the bark chips would not get chance to dry out fully being at the bottom of the cage.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

I can understand that he will pick up the bark with a cricket as i've seen it happen before although fortunatly he always managed to drop the bark on the way to his mouth. I am however pretty much exclusively using feeding cups at the moment, so this appears very unlikely to happen. I'll get rid of the bark as soon as I can but the earliest I can find time to do this will be tommorow and I can't guarentee I will be able to as I need to work etc. I still don't see the level of urgency but I think it is probably safer, more hygenic and cheaper in the long run to just use paper towls or newspaper.

It would also make the cleaning process a lot easier and quicker and therefore cause less stress to the chameleon. He didn't seem upset or stressed but being moved around like that and left on a plant in the middle of a shower for a couple of hours can't be much fun.

I have a plastic tray (one especially for the flexarium) underneath the bark currently. I put a layer of newspaper between the bark so the water that goes through the bottom of the plant bots could be absorbed by something rather than forming a pool like I found last time when I cleaned it out. The bark was disgusting but it was entirely my fault for the lack of cleaning performed. I'm fairly sure I even saw little things moving around in the bark.

I give time for the cage to dry out between mistings but it's obviously more difficult for bark at the bottom to dry out and when water is passing through the pots of the plants it's going to make it even more difficult to dry out.

I think my guy likes temperatures around 32-36 C in his basking spot as I have stuggled to get the temperatures to go back up to that since I cleaned out and reorganised the cage on Saturday and he also hasn't spent much time basking. I set temperatures on my thermostat but I've moved the heat sensor elsewhere as I keep finding he managed to knock it to a differnet place or it is more vulnerable to getting wet where I've placed it (and therefore giving inaccurate readings and causing the cage to get warmer). In the end I went back to putting it in a similar place to where I had it before and just making a point of wiping any water off it after misting sessions.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

If there was any basis to my initial concerns, I beleive I have found it.

The heat bulb was malfunctioning.

My sister reported it ceasing to work while I was away but as it appeared to work when I returned I didn't look into it further. I have stuggled to get my basking spot up until the desired temperatures for the last week or so and especailly since my reorganisation of the cage. In the end I found it was broken and I believe it was almost broken for a couple of weeks and certainly not providing adequit heat in a consistant way. Lack of heat and light = lack of digestion = lack of pooing = lack of appetite = lack of eating = lack of growing = lack of shedding skin properly.

So now on bulb number 3 in month 4 of keeping him.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

What sort of bulb are you using for the basking light? I just use a normal 60w house bulb, which at £1 doesn't really matter if it needs replacing every few months!

 

[HairyScaryMark]

Same. I had a spot and replaced it with a larger one.

I think there was an issue with the connections between the cable and ceramic light fitting. I opened it up and re-fitted the cable onto it and it now works fine but I managed to break 2 bulbs prior to this. Luckily it is working fine now but I am stuggling to get it up past 28 C in my basking spot (even with the therostat turned up to the highest setting of 32 degrees with the heat sensor placed in a cooler area). Maybe this brand of bulb (asda 60W spotlight) can't emit enough heat. I'll try moving the heat sensor around and see if I can get it higher. I thought if I turned the temperature up and put it under some shade it should try and make it warmer. I've even tried dampening the sensor in an attempt to fool into into emitting more heat but nothing seems to get it past 28C. Failing that i'll try another brand of bulb and should be getting a second lamp tommorow and if need be I can use it for heat although originally just planned it for additional lighting (as suggested by Jonas).

 

[carlosandcat]

hi,

i know this wasnt one of your initial concerns, but re the bark. I just lost a chameleon, this week, due to what i think was impaction. You cant keep an eye on them 24/7, so you dont really know if they have swallowed a splinter or a whole lump and if there is nothing for them to choke on or accidently swallow -best to take it out, its one less thing to worry about. I have now removed all bark from my female cham, and its looks a bit rubbish, but i dont worry so much that she's impacted (as its number 2 on the list or common ailments with chams)

dont worry, i wont go on, i just had to mention it though

 

[Tinouk26]

look normal to me

Ive had veiled's for around 5 years and most of mine have lost appetite before and during shedding, also the shed time can vary greatly. looks fine to me. keep an eye out tho just to make sure.

Tino

 

[HairyScaryMark]

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate your concern for my chameleon also. It's just a bit of a beginner thing for me to think there is something wrong with him but I see it's not an uncommon style of question.

I'll perhaps get nicer looking plant pots to make up for lack of bark at the bottom. I could get another jungle vine so it is easier to manouver his way round the bottom of the cage although it's probably not much of a big deal.

Have to find time to change this about at some point. Probably just attempt to use a shovel to scoop out the bark rather than dismantel the entire thing over the next few days. This way allows I can finish the job in installments with minimal disruption to the chameleon.

He seems to be getting some of his appetite back but not for black crickets (only eaten 1 or 2 in the last week). Wax worms however he will eat a few a day easily. Apparently his sister (who was sent up to the shop I got mine from) doesn't like black crickets much either. He just seems to have gone off them completely now. Probably try out a new food type later this week. I just don't like brown crickets as I am not very good at stopping them from escaping when moving them between containers and being fed etc. I prefer to get the smallest black crickets (which usually contain a few larvi) as he's a big fan of the larvi and the small black crickets don't bite like these ones do but the chameleons taste preferences may dictate otherwise. If I recall, he actually went through my last box of brown crickets very fast.

 

[Miss Lily]

A lot of chams won't eat the black crickets. Try the 'silent' ones instead, he may like those. You can also get locusts in different sizes too - maybe you could try him with some of those too? While he's still small, he may enjoy Phoenix Worms - these are very high in calcium and are small feeders too.

 

[HairyScaryMark]

He used to eat the black crickets easily enough although the recent/current ones are bigger, more agressive and loud (the ones my parents panicked and bought while I was away). He happily eats locusts of varying sizes (even ones that are probably too big for him). Pheonix worms I think I'd have to order off the internet. I've heard super worms cause chameleons to refuse to eat anything otehr than super worms afterwards also. Nobody would forgive me if I took cockroaches into this house, especailly if one escaped so it rules that out.

Silk worms and horn worms? I'll have a look but i'm not sure if anyone local stocks them.

I'll probably get meal worms, wax worms and locusts tommorow and get some small crickets (hopefully with larvi) later in the week. Have to combine buying them with a day where i'm not working afterwards as I don't want to take anything that makes noise into the workplace.

edit/add: it just occured to me there is a fishing shop round the corner from where I work so I could maybe get some worms from there or at least check out what they have for future reference.

 

[Miss Lily]

Here's a link for the site where I buy silkworms from: http://www.butterworms.co.uk/index.html The are out of stock at the moment, but I have ordered from them before and been very happy with their service. As soon as they have silkies back in stock I'll be ordering some for Amy again. Whe I ordered the first lot from them I emailed about the sizes and was told to state that I wanted smaller sized ones when I ordered.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

He used to eat the black crickets easily enough although the recent/current ones are bigger, more agressive and loud (the ones my parents panicked and bought while I was away). He happily eats locusts of varying sizes (even ones that are probably too big for him). Pheonix worms I think I'd have to order off the internet. I've heard super worms cause chameleons to refuse to eat anything otehr than super worms afterwards also. Nobody would forgive me if I took cockroaches into this house, especailly if one escaped so it rules that out.

Silk worms and horn worms? I'll have a look but i'm not sure if anyone local stocks them.

I'll probably get meal worms, wax worms and locusts tommorow and get some small crickets (hopefully with larvi) later in the week. Have to combine buying them with a day where i'm not working afterwards as I don't want to take anything that makes noise into the workplace.

edit/add: it just occured to me there is a fishing shop round the corner from where I work so I could maybe get some worms from there or at least check out what they have for future reference.

It's the waxworms that can cause them to eat nothing else, as they are essentially sweets to them. Full of fat but no nutritional value. I try to limit Hugo to a few a week, but I know some people will only allow their chams one a few months. They are good for training them to hand feed, but that's about it. Superworms (or Morio worms over here I think) look like large mealworms, and i believe they have a good bit on them. Hugo never took to them so I can't say what they are like as a feeder.

With regards to mealworms, again I don't use them as he never took to them, but I believe that they are quite hard to digest due to the chitin in the exoskeleton, and again can lead to impaction. If you are going to feed them, only do so when they are freshly moulted, and therefore soft.

Hugo gets fussy with the crickets, but I still put them in. He is now down to feeding ever other day, so I alternate between crickets and locusts. He eats all his locusts, but only some of the crickets, so I am not too worried that less get eaten. I know some people on here believe a fussy eater is one who is fed too much!

 

[HairyScaryMark]

Ahh, I heard on internet that superworms are the ones that cause chameleons to eat nothing else. I've came to notice in reptile community (and the internet and probably the wider world in general) a lot more information is preached as gospel when in reality it is only hearsay or a partial truth.

I'll probably try and stay clear of the wax worms for a while or at least cut them down as he's been through 3 tubs of them (and some of their moths) in the last 2 months. Some small brown crickets that jump a lot would probably excite him enough to start eating 'normal' food again.

Thanks for the info. That website isn't cheap (although the food is a bit more specialist than the stuff I usually get for £2). I'll concider ordering some stuff after I see what exactly I can get locally. The shop I like the best and have gotten most of my stuff from is the most likely place to have something less usual but unfortuantly isn't open tommorow.