Vitamin A

[draetish]

I've seen some articles on the internet that Chameleons now days are suffering from Vitamin A Deficiency. Below is the same thing I see in almost all articles when I research vitamins.

"There has been considerable controversy over how much, and what type of vitamin A chameleons need. Reports of small research studies in the 1990s suggested chameleons should not be given preformed vitamin A, since it could result in excessive levels of vitamin A in the animal (hypervitaminosis A). Later research found this information to be incorrect. Many chameleons today suffer from vitamin A deficiency (hypovitaminosis A) due to the misinformation published in the early 1990s."

We know that Vitamin A is Beta Carotene and that we should gutload our feeders but my question is: How much Vitamin A does a Chameleon need?
I cannot seem to find the answer on the internet.

 

[jessica]

I've read the same thing and I had the same question!

 

[Jerm]

I've seen some articles on the internet that Chameleons now days are suffering from Vitamin A Deficiency. Below is the same thing I see in almost all articles when I research vitamins.

"There has been considerable controversy over how much, and what type of vitamin A chameleons need. Reports of small research studies in the 1990s suggested chameleons should not be given preformed vitamin A, since it could result in excessive levels of vitamin A in the animal (hypervitaminosis A). Later research found this information to be incorrect. Many chameleons today suffer from vitamin A deficiency (hypovitaminosis A) due to the misinformation published in the early 1990s."

We know that Vitamin A is Beta Carotene and that we should gutload our feeders but my question is: How much Vitamin A does a Chameleon need?
I cannot seem to find the answer on the internet.

Actually beta carotene can be converted to vitamin A by some animals, it is not vitamin A until it has been converted. You will not find preformed vitamin A (actual vitamin A) an most suppliments that are on the market, it comes in the less toxic form of beta carotene, waiting to be converted. Though it is safer to allow an animal to convert the beta carotene, you have to concider whether the animal that you are feeding would naturally eat vegetation in the wild, which would be the ones who would have the ability to convert the beta carotene into A. I am not trying to start any contraversy on here, and I’m sure that this will, but many of the members have their own opinions and will attack other people who state otherwise. This is why a lot of people are afraid to post any hard statements about how much of a specific supplement should be used or not used. I recommend getting as much info from as many different sources as possible and making you own plan of action for supplimentation from what you have found out. I do supplement preformed vitamin to my F. pardalis, and would not supplement it to a C. calyptratus. I have done this for several years now with my pardalis and have not had some of the health problems that I had experienced in previous years. You have to be very careful with vitamin A because it can be easily overdosed which will cause serious health problems also (hypervitaminosis). There are people who have kept pardalis for many years without supplementing preformed vitamin A and have had no issues, which is why a lot of people feel that it isn’t needed. I have learned from discussing with veteranarians, reading publications and speaking with other reputable pardalis breeders that pardalis tend to need more A than other species. Of course more research should be done to prove this theory but when I find something that works for my chameleon, I stick with it. I recommend discussing it with your vet and finding a dosage that is right for your chameleon if you feel like it is something that you are interested in supplementing. A vet should have access to preformed A and the dose is very tiny. It is something that has to be given in small amounts over a period of time, you cannot give a large dose to an animal that is deficient, it will only make things worse. Another supplement that you have to concider very carefully when supplementing is vitamin D3. I personally do not use it unless I have to. Many suppliments have massive amounts of either D3 or beta carotein or a combination of the two. Choose your suppliments wisely. Remember that this is strictly my opinion and I am not a veterinarian. I am not on here to argue with anyone, so people can post their opinions about what I have stated, but I am not going to respond to someone who is challenging me or wants to argue. Hopefully this helps.

 

[draetish]

I so appreciate your response and take your opinion seriously. Great recommendations, Thanks!
Donna

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hi
Im one of those who doesnt provide any preformed vitmain A, and have long lived healthy panther chameleons. However I do think it cant hurt and might help (especially if feeder options are limited) to provide a very small amount or preformed vitamin A a couple times a year. You Just have to be cautious about the amount - LESS is more in this case . D3 also figures into this because vitamin A and D3 are antagonistic to each other - you need calcium, A, D3 all to be in the right balance. The advice above to consult a vet is good advice.

You may also like to read the links about vitamin A from this blog entry. Those who swear by use of preformed vitamin A discuss their dosing techniques in a couple of the threads.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html

 

[warpdrive]

I have to agree with Sandra and Jerm in that you realy need to do as much reading and if you do supliment with preformed vit A, that is in ultra low dose and only once in a blue moon.

IMHO, I still feel that gutloading is far more important then suplimentation.
so if you use alot of different feeders and gutload with a wide amout of different items then you'll be in better shape then trying to make up for it with supliments.

personaly, I use reptivite w/D3 once a month as it has a small amount of preformed vit A in it.
but even on young and growing chams, I would not use more then that.

Harry

 

[draetish]

I agree that gutloading is the way to go and thanks for everyone's comments.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

I thought I'd refresh this older thread (https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-much-vitamin-24400/) by doing a new cut/paste of my portion into here :

In the interest of keeping that particular post's vitamin A information readily available (posts that get too old end-up buried in the archives) I'll do a cut/paste of it into here. I think my original-original post was from waaay back in 2005:

The subject of supplementation certainly has a lot of controversy surrounding it. Vitamin A has had its ups and downs all by itself too. I was reading my latest library addition; "Reptile Medicine and Surgery", 2nd Edition, edited by Douglas R. Mader, MS, DVM, DABVP. It just started shipping a few weeks ago (12-2005?). It's an extensive update of the original 1996 version. It has increased from around 500 pages to over 1200 pages and over 900 images. Chapters are written by Mader and 72 contributing authors, mostly Vets.

I was especially interested in the conclusions about vitamin A and chameleons in chapter 18 (written by Susan Donoghue). I'm not sure just how new that data is but the conclusion that most chameleons are deficient in a source of preformed vitamin A and not just beta-carotene got me wondering. This deficiency is supposed to be causing real problems, especially noted in Veileds. That got me to thinking about my chameleons (1 Panther and 2 Veileds) as well as another Veiled that I was taking care of for some friends who went out of town for 10 days. Their female Veiled began having troubles staying upright on its branches and vines a month or two ago. She was looked at by an exotic vet who prescribed liquid Ca and more UVB (sunshine). The diagnosis seemed reasonable (she had produced 3 successful clutches) but the treatment didn't change anything for the first few weeks+. While she was in my care, Mader's book arrived. I read about the Vit A issue and decided to give her a couple of Ca/D3/Vit A dustings. I had some ReptoCal product that someone had given me but that I'd never used before. In its many ingredients, it listed Vit. A at 219,900 IU/kg. I dusted with it for 2-3 feedings and she actually began showing improvement after about a week or so. Her keepers returned and after a few more days they said that she was now climbing some and that her stability seems to continue to improve. It could be that the liquid Ca/UVB finally kicked-in or the Vit A did something useful or both.

I knew that there was some controversy about preformed Vit. A verses beta-carotene. I, along with many other chameleon keepers, use the Rep-Cal Herptivite multivitamin product that only has beta-carotene as a potential vitamin A source and no preformed vitamin A. Mader's book talks about how lizards like chameleons don't process beta-carotene like herbivores do thus leading to potential chameleon's troubles. I'm in the process of re-thinking my supplementation. I'm thinking about either a replacement for the Rep-Cal Herptivite product or, more likely, adding some source of preformed vitamin A to the dusting schedule (without overdosing). Mine usually get Ca/D3 every other week and Ca no/D3 on any superworms (poor Cah) when not using Ca/D3. They get Herptivite once a month. This was based on suggestions from my vet, Dr. Greek, who has worked on 500-1000 chameleons. My chameleons get 4-8 hours of sunshine a week (usually only on weekends)when the weather permits (not lately), along with 12 hrs of Reptisun 5.0 every day.

My biggest fear forms around my (unfounded?) concern that preformed vitamin A is easy to overdose. It is one of those vitamins that is stored in the liver etc. and it can take months to use up what is stored. Too much can even contribute to a kind of nutritional MBD among other problems including death.

The book recommends a treatment (hypovitaminosis A illness symptoms present) dosage of:
Vitamin A (liquid?) @ 2000 IU per 30 grams body weight once a week for 2 weeks.

Using powder: Dusts containing 86 IU retinyl ester /g DM (dry matter), followed by 60 IU /g DM.

Then as a maintenance level dietary dose:
Dusts providing up to 60 IU/g DM or 5-9 IU/g cricket DM. (I didn't find where it mentions how often to dust at that dosage...)

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

I'll add to the discussion that those who dose with a tiny drop of vitamin A from an 8000 IU gelcap (typical generic human supplement from your local pharmacy) once a month or so are probably in the ballpark of a reasonable dose that would keep most chameleons from potentially developing a case of hypovitaminosis A. If you happen to find gelcaps with fewer IU's per cap, get them instead of the 8000 IU ones. It'll make it easier to deliver small doses .

Ex: http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/s...6&navAction=push&navCount=1&no_new_crumb=true

 

[cubbribit]

That's a very interesting topic. But this field is still new to me. It will be grateful if you give me some
more information about it. Thanks in advance.

__________________
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[sandrachameleon]

Check out the blog entry I linked to previously. That blog entry will point /link you to a bunch of info on the subject