Viv conversion

[tony19]

There is a full length mesh panel across the front of the cage as well as vents on the sides of the tank and at the top of the tank, bob is content in his viv and happy in his self and itll only be this size for a while due to them being baby panthers and then when they are all subadult ill get new individual vivs. and i have a selection of live plants yet to go in but as im growing them on abit so theyre not destroyed straight away then no there isnt any in there.

And can i just say im really not going to listen to people throwing abuse and telling me what to do with only 100 posts on the website and only copying what other people have said
i do thank those who have been civil and put feedback which i will take on board, and if you do have a problem then feel free to come round and see how obviously unhealthy my chameleon is and how he cant quiet possibly be happy

and in response to the free ranging , yes when i am home from work but if im not then no his kept inside the viv

I'm not attacking you.take it as you may but. The amount of post someone has doesn't make them more or less Experienced then any other. You your self only have 342 post on this site. You may or may not be more experienced then me or others on this site. The number of post mean nothing here.

On a side note if you choose not to take the advise from others then that's up to you ( your problem ). People are tring to help. I agree with you mabe some came across as a little rude but not everyone did. I think he should have more room personally 24*48 for an Adult valid.

Although Bob may appear to be "content" in his current enclosure size, 18 inches wide, 18 inches deep...approximately the total length of an adult veiled is far too small.

Obviously he cannot express his discontent to you, and you are clearly oblivious to this, but whether or not a member has 100 posts or 10,000 posts, it does not change the fact that your chameleon barely has enough room to turn in a circle without touching the sides of his enclosure. These creatures once had an entire jungle to roam around in, and you believe it is acceptable to house him in an enclosure of that size despite all of the comments by the members of this forum?

And on top of that you would like to subject an additional 2 chameleons to the same fate? Shame on you is all I have to say, you come to this forum seeking approval for what I believe to be sub-standard housing practices, and then claim that everyone who has expressed an opinion that does not suit you, is either dumb or completely inexperienced due to their lack of posting?

I for one feel very sorry for your veiled, and whichever panther chameleons have the misfortune of being imprisoned in the jail of an enclosure that you are so proud of.

Heed the advice of the other members who have hundreds of years of experience combined, put your ego aside and admit that in your quest to obtain a small zoo of animals, you have overlooked the basic requirements of chameleon ownership.

Chameleons are not snakes, they cannot be placed in a rack system with barely enough room to move. They require fresh air, room to regulate their heat, and height for security. Essentially the complete opposite of what you have provided.

And if you still think you have provided them with enough, try locking yourself in your bathroom or a closet for a few days and see how you are enjoying life at the end of it.

Don't be a fool. You have time to change your set up and your husbandry before something happens that makes you regret ignoring the advice given to you.

I agree with you but you do t have to be rude. Or get angry at him if he doesn't want to listen to the advise of others that's his choice

 

[Carlton]

bob is content in his viv and happy in his self i have a selection of live plants yet to go in but as im growing them on abit so theyre not destroyed

i do thank those who have been civil and put feedback which i will take on board,
and in response to the free ranging , yes when i am home from work but if im not then no his kept inside the viv

So you are going to wait to get your panthers until your plants are larger right? That's good.

Part of the problem with this thread is that you've obviously hit an emotional nerve in some members. None of us want to see chams who are headed for problems. We'd rather prevent them and that's why we stay on the forum and why we react (maybe some a little less diplomatically than others).

It can be easy to convince ourselves that our chams are happy because we are content with what we've provided. I would suggest that once Bob has warmed up for the day he is attempting to roam more than you realize because you are simply not home to see it. If you get home in late afternoon or evening that is just when Bob will be settling down for evening. The time he may take the most advantage of free ranging is past. Best to be cautious and err on the side of more space rather than less. The vast majority of chams will show a lot more activity and better health in larger spaces.

Remind yourself that Bob was supposedly content in his previous setup, minimal or not. Now you are reducing his space and I doubt he'll enjoy that very much. If he didn't have problems before he may well start.

I wouldn't suggest this to you unless I've seen it personally in chams I've known very well.

 

[andy123]

So you are going to wait to get your panthers until your plants are larger right? That's good.

Part of the problem with this thread is that you've obviously hit an emotional nerve in some members. None of us want to see chams who are headed for problems. We'd rather prevent them and that's why we stay on the forum and why we react (maybe some a little less diplomatically than others).

It can be easy to convince ourselves that our chams are happy because we are content with what we've provided. I would suggest that once Bob has warmed up for the day he is attempting to roam more than you realize because you are simply not home to see it. If you get home in late afternoon or evening that is just when Bob will be settling down for evening. The time he may take the most advantage of free ranging is past. Best to be cautious and err on the side of more space rather than less. The vast majority of chams will show a lot more activity and better health in larger spaces.

Remind yourself that Bob was supposedly content in his previous setup, minimal or not. Now you are reducing his space and I doubt he'll enjoy that very much. If he didn't have problems before he may well start.

I wouldn't suggest this to you unless I've seen it personally in chams I've known very well.

Thank you again for a civil response and in my previous post i have stated this isnt the pernament enclosure for them in about 4/5 months they will have a much larger encolsure about double the size it is now for each chameleon, this will then not be used for chameleons

 

[Carlton]

Thank you again for a civil response and in my previous post i have stated this isnt the pernament enclosure for them in about 4/5 months they will have a much larger encolsure about double the size it is now for each chameleon, this will then not be used for chameleons

Oh so maybe a lot of the problem was that we misunderstood your plans.

 

[andy123]

Oh so maybe a lot of the problem was that we misunderstood your plans.

And id like to point out people saying an adult needs a 4x 2 x2 tank and these are 4x 18"x19" thats only 5 inches by 6 inches of space these cages are short of.... i really dont think for such a short period that size is going to be a massive loss... the vents are all quiet large and the doors on the cage are open when im in and when i spray them and the heat is still in a 4ft like everyone elses.... and as ive said about live plants im just letting them get abit bigger first so theyre not destroyed within 5 minutes

 

[tony19]

Thank you again for a civil response and in my previous post i have stated this isnt the pernament enclosure for them in about 4/5 months they will have a much larger encolsure about double the size it is now for each chameleon, this will then not be used for chameleons

Ill be the first to admitt I might have got a little out of hand with that last post. For that I'm sorry I think Carlton hit the nail on the head. We just got carried away and miss understood your plans. Personally I don't think 4 -5 months will hurt but I would keep an eye on bob And make sure he's ok and doesn't get sick and stressed cause he doesn't have as much room as he used to. I and others on this site just don'tike to see my Cham passed away today
Or off to the vet.

I do t think anyone should be attacking your husbandry if they don't know you

Oh so maybe a lot of the problem was that we misunderstood your plans.

You hit the nail on the head Carlton at least for me

 

[tony19]

I have to ask you said you have house cats right ? You don't leave the door open and in attended right ? Sorry I have to ask to be sure

 

[andy123]

I made this post to show the work i did, not to explain what i was doing with it or my plans next but no one asked about them they just attacked me on having a cage that is 6inches by 5 inches too small for a chameleon.... yes the design may not be as effiecent as a full mesh one but as ive states this is really out of.the question having 2 house cats that are quite intreged by the chameleons

 

[andy123]

I have to ask you said you have house cats right ? You don't leave the door open and in attended right ? Sorry I have to ask to be sure

Nope as ive said is his locked away when im.not in and when his asleep and when i am in the cats are kept away from him to enable him to come out and climb on the feew large hohse plants (ficus) and move around the room and get back into the cage whenever he likes

 

[bradley]

The cages would be a lot better if the basking bulb was outside the cages though. It would add more space. I personally would use a white light emitting spot bulbs as they are more natural.

 

[deadhd5]

And id like to point out people saying an adult needs a 4x 2 x2 tank and these are 4x 18"x19" thats only 5 inches by 6 inches of space these cages are short of.... i really dont think for such a short period that size is going to be a massive loss...

I definitely think that this being a 4/5 month temporary setup changes things, especially if the panthers are small (you could even make the panther cages significantly smaller than Bob's cage if you get 3-4 month chams).

But to be clear, it is a huge difference. You have to deduct at least 8 inches from the height of your enclosure due to the protruding bulb.

40*19*18 = 13680 inches cubed
48*24*24 = 27648 inches cubed
13680/27648= 49.4% smaller in cubic volume

 

[TreeTopChameleons]

I definitely think that this being a 4/5 month temporary setup changes things, especially if the panthers are small (you could even make them significantly less small than Bob's cage if you get 3-4 month chams.

But to be clear, it is a huge difference. You have to deduct at least 8 inches from the height of your enclosure due to the protruding bulb.

40*19*18 = 13680 inches cubed
48*24*24 = 27648 inches cubed
13680/27648= 49.4% smaller in cubic volume

^ This. +1

 

[andy123]

I definitely think that this being a 4/5 month temporary setup changes things, especially if the panthers are small (you could even make the panther cages significantly smaller than Bob's cage if you get 3-4 month chams).

But to be clear, it is a huge difference. You have to deduct at least 8 inches from the height of your enclosure due to the protruding bulb.

40*19*18 = 13680 inches cubed
48*24*24 = 27648 inches cubed
13680/27648= 49.4% smaller in cubic volume

Bobs cage is a couple of inches bigger then the panthers side and yes they will be about 3 months old when they come just wanted enough room for them to grow in incase it takes a little longer then 4 months to get the new cages sorted

 

[tony19]

Nope as ive said is his locked away when im.not in and when his asleep and when i am in the cats are kept away from him to enable him to come out and climb on the feew large hohse plants (ficus) and move around the room and get back into the cage whenever he likes

I made this post to show the work i did, not to explain what i was doing with it or my plans next but no one asked about them they just attacked me on having a cage that is 6inches by 5 inches too small for a chameleon.... yes the design may not be as effiecent as a full mesh one but as ive states this is really out of.the question having 2 house cats that are quite intreged by the chameleons

Far enough I agree with you we shouldnt have attacked your setup or you I can see we're your coming from. Aslo I just had to ask.

 

[tony19]

I do like the idea of what your doing. But I agree with others why don't you put the light on the top? Since its all screen

 

[andy123]

I do like the idea of what your doing. But I agree with others why don't you put the light on the top? Since its all screen

Due to already saying about house cats i have to be careful that they dont get near the bulbs to either burn themselves or chew at the cables and seeing as the viv already had the holes in place for the bulbs to go it was easier yes and itll be changed when doing the new vivs.

 

[tony19]

I see that makes sense