Voracious Superworms

[jojackson]

Hi folks, The superworm breeding has been a success (a slow success, but ill do it better this round) my tub is crawling with them, many approaching full size. They seem to eat 24/7 though, I put in heaps of fresh carrot and greens every few days, but I put some in yesterday and looked in today and its all gone! every trace of it. Going to have to bump it up i think.
Spending around $12-15 of veg each week with this colony alone.
Close to same with crix and roach colonys.
In the next week ill begin turning a new batch of worms to begin the process again, perhaps several tubs this time.
Homer is eating them again, finding my clutch of beardy babies enjoying some smaller ones too. Infact almost everything from turtles to frogs.

Trying not to deplete the colony until another batch is well on the way.
I expect this lot will be quicker, since its warmer now already 30c today, great for spring. This lot went very slowly at lower temps during winter.

Incidently, Im wondering whats the longest your super beetles lived and bred for? Mine are still going strong, maybe 6 dead, more than 3 months along.
Not sure if they are still breeding but seem to be.

According all the sites links about them, they only live average 2 months?
I dont imagine theres enough 'gas' in these beetles left to start a new tub??
Do you think its worth trying?

 

[sandrachameleon]

As long as they are moving, keep them. They lay eggs right up to near "the end"

 

[jojackson]

Thanks Sandra, eitherway I thought Id let the beetles stay till they die off anyway, I just wondered if it would be worth putting them in new media, but I think ill turn some new worms.
How long do your beetles live? These guys seem to be immortal, Im gonna get a microscope and check for fangs, see if I can see them in a miror

The name is apt anyway 'Darkling' beetles. A few look kinda 'vampirish'

p.s I discovered oats works well for me, Im not going back to bran after the mite episode.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Lifespan seems to depend on temperature and food availability, though Ive made no scientific study of it
Anywhere from 2 to 3 months seems normal.
You're clearly doing things right

I move the beetles to a new tub every few weeks. This helps me keep the resulting larva more or less sorted by size. Also ensures the adults dont eat up too many of their young should i fail to provide sufficient fruit/veg water source

 

[jojackson]

Oh I see, that makes sense, Ill make a note to do that this time! Guess Ill just have to really keep up the food, though i suppose i could just make a new bin and transfer the largest leaving the rest.
Thanks for tip.

 

[summoner12]

congrats... when I go to mulberry sometimes I see Brian with the back door of his minivan open... it has HUGE bags of carrots in the back... I assume for his superworm and cricket colonies

 

[Jonas]

Superworms, are those Zophobas?

There is no need to spend too much money on these critters, they will grow just fine om the cheapest things you give them, like chicken or turkey chow etc etc. They will buzz through a wooden log if you gave it to them...

Just bring out the good stuf when you gutload.

 

[summoner12]

Superworms, are those Zophobas?

There is no need to spend too much money on these critters, they will grow just fine om the cheapest things you give them, like chicken or turkey chow etc etc. They will buzz through a wooden log if you gave it to them...

Just bring out the good stuf when you gutload.

this is true... but you do need moisture or they eat one another.

I have been using wheat bran as the bedding for them and today I noticed they are eating one another...... so I sprayed some water on the bran... I hope this settles them down.

 

[Jonas]

That is quite odd, i have never seen that.
If anything, I have noticed they do best in wery dry beddings, some carrots now and then for moisture has worked for me.

Wee seem to have wery different experiences

Do they all eat on eachother, or the larger eating the smaller?

 

[summoner12]

It doesn't seem to matter... there are just shells of the dead ones and other supers having a snack.... unless they all molted at once and there are a ton of shells.....? hmmmmmmm

 

[jojackson]

congrats... when I go to mulberry sometimes I see Brian with the back door of his minivan open... it has HUGE bags of carrots in the back... I assume for his superworm and cricket colonies

LOl, sounds familiar, yeah that'd be my bet too!

I have been using wheat bran as the bedding for them and today I noticed they are eating one another...... so I sprayed some water on the bran... I hope this settles them down.

Dude no, worst thing you can do, mould starts real easy like that, just veg is good otherwise the drier the better.

Just bring out the good stuf when you gutload.

feeding & gutloading are one and the same to me, I prefer to keep all feeders constantly gutloaded with nutrition. The healthier the insects, the healthier my lizards!

It doesn't seem to matter... there are just shells of the dead ones and other supers having a snack.... unless they all molted at once and there are a ton of shells.....? hmmmmmmm

If you feed them anything moist at all, like greens, carrots, then I expect its just casings of different sized worms. Especially if you cant find half a worm.

 

[Jonas]

feeding & gutloading are one and the same to me, I prefer to keep all feeders constantly gutloaded with nutrition. The healthier the insects, the healthier my lizards!

Mmm, but....
Gut load is just that, GUT load. It does nothing over time, all the gut contents the times you did not use them as feeders are simply wasted.
Its not a matter of build-up in the insects/larvae over time, its temporary contents in their guts. The insects will not become any more nutritious by using gutload from scratch. In fact, the gutload is not even designed to be good for the feeders, its designed to be good for the lizard.

Its your own choise of course, I just hate to see money wasted...

 

[jojackson]

Mmm, but....
Gut load is just that, GUT load. It does nothing over time, all the gut contents the times you did not use them as feeders are simply wasted.

Au contrair, my insects are never wasted, whenever i select them for feeding they will have nutritious gut contents. Neither are there gut contents wasted since it ends up on my garden. Great fertiliser. roach poo too!

Its not a matter of build-up in the insects/larvae over time, its temporary contents in their guts. The insects will not become any more nutritious by using gutload from scratch.

Well I disagree some since they graze constantly and therefor crap constantly aswell. Insects fed constantly with nutritious food grow faster, larger, and I find, live longer too, so I Imagine insects kept in nutritious food with moisture and clean well ventilated conditions 24/7 will be healthier than ones not so treated. Its worth it to me to keep healthy vigorous insects, because when some start to die off, others will too. Dead insects give off gas by decay and it kills others.
Insects not 'gutloaded' regularly will likely be deficient in moisture content too.

In fact, the gutload is not even designed to be good for the feeders, its designed to be good for the lizard.

What I give them is good for both. I ensure everything they eat is nutritious, be wet or dry. I feed different things each day, so its easy to keep food/moisture avail at all times.
there really is no period I dont use them, atleast certainly not long periods since i feed nocturnals at night too.

We really need a sticky glossary of terms and meanings, including 'Gutloading', since im sure many new folk have varying ideas about it, along with other terminology.

 

[Jonas]

Point taken on the fertilizer, its still a trade-off, money-fertilizer...

Keeping healthy insects are important to me too, I dont have the problems you mention and I do not use gutload all the time. Think about it...

I think we are a bit into therminology now. Im thinking of what we all mean when we say "nutritious". The insects dont need nutritious food to grow for instance, higt protein food will make most critters grow faster.

What we eat is not really reflected in what we are, so to speak. The things eaten by an organism is broken down to the basic fractions, like amino acids etc etc. From there the organism use it to perform its bodily tasks. You might see a difference in proportions (like more fat from this food, less from that), but over all the insects fed on chicken chow and the oned fed on exclusive gutload will be the same. If you feed the crickets exotic seaweeds, there will not be any "seeweed-substances" in the cricket a week later.

We will just have to agree to disagree

And yes, therminology is a ... female dog . Gutload for me is something quite exclusive, containing lots ov expensive ingredients.

 

[jojackson]

I think we are a bit into therminology now. Im thinking of what we all mean when we say "nutritious". The insects dont need nutritious food to grow for instance, higt protein food will make most critters grow faster.

High protein gut content can lead to gout, no doubt it gets them going but its not good for the lizard. How much protein do you suppose most bugs, excepting bloodsuckers like mozzies, actually get in nature? some yes, but not alot.
example

Nutrition and micro-organisms

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...qCVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#

If you feed the crickets exotic seaweeds, there will not be any "seeweed-substances" in the cricket a week later.

Rofl, ofcourse not , gut contents are expelled regularly, but where does the energy from food consumed end up? food does not 'just' keep any organism alive, I have to miss alot of meals to starve to death, so do the crickets. wild crickets eat alot of plant matter, a larger percentage by some to protein I think.

Gutload for me is something quite exclusive, containing lots ov expensive ingredients.

and your trying to save me money?

 

[Jonas]

I dont really think insects can get gout. If you mean the lizard, then there is no high protein content left in the crickets after I gutload them. Thats the whole point.

I dont get this part
"Rofl, ofcourse not , gut contents are expelled regularly, but where does the energy from food consumed end up? food does not 'just' keep any organism alive, I have to miss alot of meals to starve to death, so do the crickets. wild crickets eat alot of plant matter, a larger percentage by some to protein I think. "

If you go without food, the blood content will be emptied first, then the body will start using the energy in your musceles, fat etc etc.
You are missing the point. Those same reserves you are talking about are the same in the body, whether you have been eating seaweed or hamburgers. THAT is why its not economic or logical to use "finer" gutload for just raising insects. The result is the same.

 

[jojackson]

If you go without food, the blood content will be emptied first, then the body will start using the energy in your musceles, fat etc etc.
You are missing the point.

I suspect thats a bit different for insects.

Those same reserves you are talking about are the same in the body, whether you have been eating seaweed or hamburgers.

Yes but what quantity of various nutrients will depend on that diet, aka how much seaweed or hamburgers you've been eating. If youve been eating hamburgers and your body needs seaweed, youll be deficient in something. If you dont have a good balanced diet, you'll be unhealthy, same goes for any living thing.
Ask an insect breeder how much production drops off and how mortality rises if fed poor diets, and the reverse if fed high quality food.

I want my colonies booming, I have much to feed.

I dont really think insects can get gout. If you mean the lizard, then there is no high protein content left in the crickets after I gutload them. Thats the whole point.

yes the lizard. You seem to be saying insects cant take up nutrition which is stored in the body, making their nutritional content better for the lizard? On this we must agree to disagree.
Good luck with your insects!

 

[Jonas]

Finally we are agreeing!

 

[Howdyco]

I have some super beetles going now.
They are in a plastic bin with oat bran and fresh veggies.
They have been beetles for about a month now.

How long do I leave them in the bin they are in eating and mating and presumably laying eggs in?

Or do I need to switch the substrate out at some point and set it aside to let eggs/worms hatch/grow in and give the beetles fresh meal?

This is my first attempt at this. I have read the blog-notes on superworm breeding but just wanted to make sure I am thinking correctly.

Thanks in Advance,
H

 

[sandrachameleon]

There is no need to spend too much money on these critters, they will grow just fine om the cheapest things you give them, like chicken or turkey chow etc etc. They will buzz through a wooden log if you gave it to them...Just bring out the good stuf when you gutload.

Bran and oats and carrots and squash etc are cheap, and better for the chameleons (assumng this is why you're keeping the superworms) than chicken or turkey chow. Slightly Rotting wood and leaves (and dung) make up part of their natural diet. I occassionally provide leaves and bark, but they mainly eat oats, bran, carrots, fruit, etc.