Voracious Superworms

[sandrachameleon]

How long do I leave them in the bin they are in eating and mating and presumably laying eggs in?

I move the beetles to a new bin every few weeks.

 

[Howdyco]

Thank You sandrachameleon!

 

[HairyScaryMark]

I've became interested in breeding my own super worms.

I've been looking at breeding guides on the internet as well as youtube videos. Can someone make sure i'm following it correctly and i'm still unsure over a number of things.

A lot of people use pill containers like this one to seperate the worms.
http://www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/bathing/pill-organisers-and-dosett-boxes-1306.htm

Some people just use a series of plastic cups. Has anyone tried both of these approaches and noticed any differences in sucess rates? I thought they would probably have more space as well as more seperation in plastic cups but that possibly doesn't matter.

I found this supplier of Super Worms (i think morio worms is more common term than super worms in UK). http://insectsdirect.com/morio-worms/view-all-products.html

I figured 50+ super worms would be a good number to start off with. Anyone got an idea of how many Grams or KG that is? They seemed to be sold by mass on other websites also. The website has a phone number so I will otherwise try that.

What percentage of worms have made it through to pupal state then to beatles?

Also, should I wait until worms are fully grown before seperating them to pupate or does it matter what size they are? Do they do better pupating in the dark?

Also, I live in Scotland and winter is setting in. Should I provide a heat or light source to my beatles or worms?

 

[Fearaffect]

IF your spending that much to feed them every week......how are u really saving money on raising your own??? Time it takes to take care of the, and the food bill.........just doesnt make since.

 

[tkilgour]

Thats a lot of dough to spent for sure. I bet you have an endless supply of feeders.

 

[Pure]

Having half an idea of just how large Dan's collection is....he's saving money. Also over there feeders are no where near as readily available as they are to us here in the States and even in Europe.

Harry, To start your own colony I wouldn't start with anything less than 1000 worms. That way you can feed your animals wile you wait for the colony to get going. Your not going to save much money by only ordering 50 or so worms. Shipping is still going to be a hit.

 

[BocaJan]

The worms shed, at least 6 times until they are juicy fat. I piece of potato is about all I give them, unless I happen to have some wilting carrots in the fridge.

I have never seen the beetles shed. I don't believe they do.

 

[jojackson]

What percentage of worms have made it through to pupal state then to beatles?

Most do mark, occasionally one carks it (a straight worm is dead, they curl up while pupating)

Also, should I wait until worms are fully grown before seperating them to pupate or does it matter what size they are? Do they do better pupating in the dark?

Yes, use large worms, a smaller worm will exhuast much energy in the process. Larger worms mean larger more robust beetles. Yes, they seem to do well in the dark, it mimics burrowing, which I assume they do to pupate in the wild.

Also, I live in Scotland and winter is setting in. Should I provide a heat or light source to my beatles or worms?

Heat certainly, light no. They dont tolerate cold and everything is much slower at lower tempratures.

Patients is required.

P.S incredibly, my original beetles are still going , about 80% (pupated in early may) and still depositing eggs! Something to be said for feeding a healthy diet.

Having half an idea of just how large Dan's collection is....he's saving money. Also over there feeders are no where near as readily available as they are to us here in the States and even in Europe.

Definately saving money! The hobby is still in its infancy here but booming. Very few commercial breeders , maybe 4-5 in the whole country, and they arnt so big and are limited to crickets/woodies (roaches) and mealworms..
Both the above work out at around 50cents per insect (bought commercially), and superworms are unheard of here still.
Stick insects and the like are rarely bred and when they are, its as kids pets, $10-15 per insect is simply to expensive!
Most herpers breed their own insects and rely on wild stuff (hoppers flyers worms) for variety.
We'd be in heaven if we could walk into a petstore (or buy online*) the variety of feeders avail elsewhere!
* Our quarantine is incredibly strict, nothing gets in! this applies equally to insects.

Im loving supers and so are my herps, Id be happy if they cost me twice as much to raise! Ofcourse the beauty of breeding your own is exactly that supply will endless if you do it right!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jonas and Jo,

Just came to this thread. Jonas, I am of your thinking on using the cheap stuff to raise and maintain my insect colony, then going with a much higher quality gut-load prior to feeding the insects to the chameleons. However, I see it only as an economic decision, with a small trade-off in the productivity of the insects.

I saw where chicken and turkey mash were mentioned as maintenance foods, and that is what most got my attention. I have not touched chicken mash in over seven years. Back then we tried one 50 lb bag of chick food (designed for the little chicks, not Foghorn Leghorn ... see Looney Tunes), and it was a complete disaster for about 100 chameleons. Back then, and possibly still now, chick mash often contained growth hormones designed for chickens. It has disastrous results on the chameleons, who apparently reacted to the mash still in the gut of the crickets. While we have proven here that constant real sun and Florida weather, combined with good food and lots of water, can grow female pardalis to full size in 5-6 months naturally, and males to breeding size in 7 months (full size for males still takes at least 10-11 months), the hormones in chicken mash cut those times by 1/3rd, with visible defects.

I have put out this warning in years past. I do not know how many poultry mash products pose a potential problem, as the hormones were not listed on the label of our product, and we had to ask the manufacturer once we realized we had a problem. I do suggest extreme caution with the poultry products, and recommend the bran residue, or other cricket or earthworm products, instead of poultry stuff. All are quite inexpensive, and work for crickets and superworms.

Good thread info guys and gals.

 

[nick barta]

Jim,

What is "bran residue"?

Nick

Just came to this thread. Jonas, I am of your thinking on using the cheap stuff to raise and maintain my insect colony, then going with a much higher quality gut-load prior to feeding the insects to the chameleons. However, I see it only as an economic decision, with a small trade-off in the productivity of the insects.

I saw where chicken and turkey mash were mentioned as maintenance foods, and that is what most got my attention. I have not touched chicken mash in over seven years. Back then we tried one 50 lb bag of chick food (designed for the little chicks, not Foghorn Leghorn ... see Looney Tunes), and it was a complete disaster for about 100 chameleons. Back then, and possibly still now, chick mash often contained growth hormones designed for chickens. It has disastrous results on the chameleons, who apparently reacted to the mash still in the gut of the crickets. While we have proven here that constant real sun and Florida weather, combined with good food and lots of water, can grow female pardalis to full size in 5-6 months naturally, and males to breeding size in 7 months (full size for males still takes at least 10-11 months), the hormones in chicken mash cut those times by 1/3rd, with visible defects.

I have put out this warning in years past. I do not know how many poultry mash products pose a potential problem, as the hormones were not listed on the label of our product, and we had to ask the manufacturer once we realized we had a problem. I do suggest extreme caution with the poultry products, and recommend the bran residue, or other cricket or earthworm products, instead of poultry stuff. All are quite inexpensive, and work for crickets and superworms.

Good thread info guys and gals.

 

[jojackson]

Well I suppose it all depends if weather or not you consider dollars the bottom line, for me cost dosent come into it, ive never spared anything on this hobby, I must've spent a fortune over the years. Others spend ridiculous amounts on various hobbys, many having nothing to do with living creatures!
For me its about passion, I never do anything halfassed, its wasted energy, if your going to do it, do it right.
Its like a builder building a grand home but using shoddy materials to save money or cut corners. Go figure.
Some might consider my expenditure wasteful, but then I could be drinking or drugging or gamboling money away.
I reckon all said, the quality of care for my reptiles equates to healthier animals, healthier animals do what comes naturally and at the end of the day, Id say I just about break even, and I dont breed for the money but for the love of it. All my animals are family pets.
The best way to make a small fortune breeding reptiles, is to start with a large fortune!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well ....

Nick, if you go to a feed store, looking to buy a cricket or insect chow, you are basically buying a bag of residual stuff from different milling processes. In it will be bran, dust from various mill products, husks, stems, etc. It varies by mill, and where you are in the country. Some mills produce high quality stuff, while others seem to be selling what they swept up off the floor. I call it "bran residue", but it might be better identified as "bran and leftovers from the milling process". Unfortunately, you can't get much of an appreciation for what is out there unless you shop around buying 50lb bags of various mill products, labeled as their version of cricket food, or earthworm food, etc. Hope that helps

Its like a builder building a grand home but using shoddy materials to save money or cut corners. Go figure.

Jo, perhaps with many things about raising chams, but I do not think this analogy applies to the way others raise superworms. Not sure how you meant it, but there are different means-to-an-end with insects, and none discussed here seem shoddy IMMHO.

 

[jojackson]

Jo, perhaps with many things about raising chams, but I do not think this analogy applies to the way others raise superworms. Not sure how you meant it, but there are different means-to-an-end with insects, and none discussed here seem shoddy IMMHO.

I didnt intend to be taken as such either Jim, simply explaining the reasoning behind my own insect raising methods.
If anyone could produce valid data, having faithfully reproduced my methods against a control group/s raised by other methods, and show my insects not to have greater nutritional values (for the end consumer_reptiles/ Gutloading not withstanding) than the control groups after a reason time, then I'll certainly revise my thinking.
As it stands, years of healthy reptiles and amphibians, and likewise healthy insect reproduction and growth speak for themselves
as far as my interests go.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I didnt intend to be taken as such either Jim, simply explaining the reasoning behind my own insect raising methods.
If anyone could produce valid data, having faithfully reproduced my methods against a control group/s raised by other methods, and show my insects not to have greater nutritional values than the control groups after a reason time, then I'll certainly revise my thinking.
As it stands, years of healthy reptiles and amphibians, and likewise healthy insect reproduction and growth speak for themselves
as far as my interests go

Jo, I do not think anyone is going to do a study to satisfy your approach. Point is, that with both Jonas and myself, we also have "years of healthy reptiles ....." using an alternative approach that is also time-tested. This is not rocket science, that simple feeder insects aren't worth much more than what they've eaten in the last 12 hours, if that .... an analogy where you decided it was as building a mansion with shoddy materials. BS

If you care to discuss the merits of peak performance of insects as breeders, that is one thing. No one is knocking your approach. Its your criticism of others, whether directly or through these tedious analogies, that is the bore. Once you make the connection to your approach being superior for reptiles vs. what Jonas originally advocated .... well ... how about you provide the control groups, proof, etc ? Frankly .... it ain't there.

 

[jojackson]

Jo, I do not think anyone is going to do a study to satisfy your approach.

Are you really that literal minded Jim? It was never expected, its rhetorical.

This is not rocket science, that simple feeder insects aren't worth much more than what they've eaten in the last 12 hours

I disagree. In any case 'value' is clear in the reproductive health/performance of the insects I breed.

an analogy where you decided it was as building a mansion with shoddy materials. BS

Stick to chameleons Jim, comprehension isnt your strong point. That clearly refers to ANYONE, doing ANYTHING, halfassed, and in context was part of my explaination for my own approach to ANYTHING, it was in no way directed at anyone elses insect breeding ideas. Please try to keep up.

No one is knocking your approach.

I never said they were! *shrugs*

Its your criticism of others, whether directly or.....

I havent criticised anyone in this thread, up to this post.

... through these tedious analogies, that is the bore.....bla bla bla

You know Jim, you confuse me mate. Sometimes you seem like a smart pleasant bloke with helpful advice, and other times, you seem like a whiney teenaged girl with PMS and some kind of physcosis. Baiting me with such dribble that is clearly intended to antagonise, just wont work today, your going to have to go and entertain yourself some other way. Ok.

There is always someone who has to ruin a great thread.