Watering with ice cubes

Trace said:
Maybe you haven’t been keeping as long as some of us to know the difference. ;)

Beyond letting the chameleon have a drink, I use a misting system to simulate the lengthy rainy seasons that happen once or twice a year in East Africa. My focus is on species from this area but different rainy seasons happen all over the continent - including Madagascar. Many species need these annual changes in temperature, humidity and water to survive in captivity and ultimately breed and a few ice cubes on the top of a cage just won’t cut it.

But hey, if it works for you…
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some people choose to go all out and simulate everything that was in the wild which is almost impossible to do. this animal just like any other will grow accustom to whatever conditions they encounter.
 
Oh, because that's why so many die when being imported. They adapted! Silly me, thinking otherwise.

Prepare to be proven wrong on your last statement.
 
reefercheefer said:
some people choose to go all out and simulate everything that was in the wild which is almost impossible to do. this animal just like any other will grow accustom to whatever conditions they encounter.
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Why wouldn't you choose to go all out?! These are beautiful, god given animals, who are not just things to take for granted. You said almost impossible, which is not true. I have seen many many things people do for these creatures that can almost rival the forest pretty darn well. The animal will not grow accustomed to fowl living conditions or the bare minimum. They will become sick and die because of something as simple of bad watering.
Why not just spend 5 bucks on something as simple as a dripper, to improve your animals life. Why not give them all you can offer? You can't cut corners with these guys
 
reefercheefer said:
some people choose to go all out and simulate everything that was in the wild which is almost impossible to do. this animal just like any other will grow accustom to whatever conditions they encounter.
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Um not true at all! Animals that have very broad diets, are very mobile, or capable of cognitive reasoning may be able to adapt to change (ravens, coyotes, crows, rats, mice, starlings, parrots, etc), but many others can't either because their physical requirements are very specific, or the change happens suddenly. Chams are successful in the habitats they are so carefully fitted to. They are highly specialized in behavior and physically. Not a bad thing, just the way they are. If they were so adaptable they would occur naturally in many more places or become pests in their native countries or wherever introduced. Other than a few introduced colonies around the world in climate conditions very similar to their original homes, this has NOT happened.

The oldest most outdated cham care books describe the ice cube method, back before their hydration needs were well understood. It's nothing new or exciting, and most of us find better ways to water a cham. Unless you plan on weighing the top of your cage down heavily with ice, in warm temps the ice is going to melt too fast to offer water very long and it doesn't do much to keep the air humidity up either. If I had a montane species in a heat wave the ice might help cool the cage down for the night. Other than that, it's just not the best way to offer water during the day.
 
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reefercheefer said:
some people choose to go all out and simulate everything that was in the wild which is almost impossible to do. this animal just like any other will grow accustom to whatever conditions they encounter.
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That's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a long time and it demonstrates just how much you do not understand these animals at all. It's such a shame that you have any chameleons in your care.
 
it's amazing how quickly these threads turn into mud slinging matches...do differences of opinion need to be expressed aggressively? Knowledge is power, but knowledge is passed on more freely if people are polite to each other, & things don't get out of context.
 
Over ten years ago, when I was newer to the hobby, I thought dripping melting ice would allow for my chameleon to have access to water for a longer period of time, while I was out. I froze water in a plastic container, transfer the frozen block to another slightly larger container that had two holes poked in the bottom. I put this container ontop of the cage next to the heat lamp. It did slowly melt and drip.

I soon realized though that a basic dripper, filled with room temp water, does the same thing without having to waste time and energy freezing water.

I also did a little experiment to find out what my chameleons (I had only two at that time) preferred - warm water, room temp water or cold water. I gave them choice - all three dripping. I did this over the course of a week, moving the containers around to ensure the were choosing water temp not location.

Guess what they seemed to most liked? room temp. They spent the longest amount of time drinking when they were drinking from the room temp dripper water.

Will melting ice cubes kill your chameleon? probably not.
Are they less desirable in terms of digestion or metabolism? maybe.
Does room temp water cause anything undesirable in terms of digestion or metabolism? unlikely.
Is room temp water just as easy or easier than ice? yes.
Do you want your chameleon to get maximum hydration? yes, I should hope so
So, is room temp water better than cold water? I think so, yes.
 
ferretinmyshoes said:
lysinlight - Here is why so many people are unhappy with this person: https://www.chameleonforums.com/no-point-buying-breeders-88781/. This person is not out for the best interest of his chams based on what he's said on several occasions.
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Ok, I understand that this person has upset people on other occasions too & I can see why.

it's just difficult if you're reading a thread and don't know that some of the opinions are based on other threads, if u don't know the background. Out of context, it all looks a bit harsh, when u think it's just an exchange of opinions on the use of ice cubes :eek:
 
froggielog said:
Why wouldn't you choose to go all out?! These are beautiful, god given animals, who are not just things to take for granted. You said almost impossible, which is not true. I have seen many many things people do for these creatures that can almost rival the forest pretty darn well. The animal will not grow accustomed to fowl living conditions or the bare minimum. They will become sick and die because of something as simple of bad watering.
Why not just spend 5 bucks on something as simple as a dripper, to improve your animals life. Why not give them all you can offer? You can't cut corners with these guys
Click to expand...

One reason cham keeping is a joy for some people is the challenge of designing and maintaining their setups. Some of us like a setup that is quirky and entertaining for the humans (like putting fake sunken ship decorations in a fish tank), but others including myself like to create little mini forests for them. Sorry, that's the biologist rearing its ugly head. OK, I'll admit to putting photo wall murals of forest in my melleri free range room for atmosphere. Sure, no cham habitat in a human house is going to be much like a coastal Malagasy rainforest, but figuring out what types of live plants will work, finding ways to stimulate natural behaviors in the chams themselves, how to create the illusion of dew, fog, rain, filtered sunlight, etc. is a lot of the appeal.
 
sandrachameleon said:
Over ten years ago, when I was newer to the hobby, I thought dripping melting ice would allow for my chameleon to have access to water for a longer period of time, while I was out. I froze water in a plastic container, transfer the frozen block to another slightly larger container that had two holes poked in the bottom. I put this container ontop of the cage next to the heat lamp. It did slowly melt and drip.

I soon realized though that a basic dripper, filled with room temp water, does the same thing without having to waste time and energy freezing water.

I also did a little experiment to find out what my chameleons (I had only two at that time) preferred - warm water, room temp water or cold water. I gave them choice - all three dripping. I did this over the course of a week, moving the containers around to ensure the were choosing water temp not location.

Guess what they seemed to most liked? room temp. They spent the longest amount of time drinking when they were drinking from the room temp dripper water.

Will melting ice cubes kill your chameleon? probably not.
Are they less desirable in terms of digestion or metabolism? maybe.
Does room temp water cause anything undesirable in terms of digestion or metabolism? unlikely.
Is room temp water just as easy or easier than ice? yes.
Do you want your chameleon to get maximum hydration? yes, I should hope so
So, is room temp water better than cold water? I think so, yes.
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its not that i dont have 5$ for a dripper i just though of it as an easy method of hydrating them. I have owned a dripper before and i could just never get it to drip at the rate i wanted. it was either pouring out or barely dripping.
 
ferretinmyshoes said:
That's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a long time and it demonstrates just how much you do not understand these animals at all. It's such a shame that you have any chameleons in your care.
Click to expand...

You are completely right sir i don't know anything at all about them. so your saying that every chameleon REQUIRES the same exact conditions or it will die? I have the proper cage, lighting, food, just no mister. I think, actaully i know for a fact my chams will be just as good off as yours.
 
reefercheefer said:
its not that i dont have 5$ for a dripper i just though of it as an easy method of hydrating them. I have owned a dripper before and i could just never get it to drip at the rate i wanted. it was either pouring out or barely dripping.
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I agree with you there! Drippers and I never saw eye to eye either. I prefer teaching a cham to drink from hand spraying or a syringe (depending on their personality) in addition to cage misting.
 
reefercheefer said:
You are completely right sir i don't know anything at all about them. so your saying that every chameleon REQUIRES the same exact conditions or it will die? I have the proper cage, lighting, food, just no mister. I think, actaully i know for a fact my chams will be just as good off as yours.
Click to expand...

I guess for me there is a BIG difference between merely living in captivity and thriving in captivity.
 
chameleoman said:
actually yes they do in the forest where they live it gets cold, thus when it rains it gets on them then the breeze chills them and rain water is cold either way because it has to be cold to rain.
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"Cold" is relative. Rain will feel cold on your skin because your body temp is 98.6 F which is a lot warmer than the air surrounding you. Have you ever been to the tropics such as E. Africa or Madagascar? The rain isn't cold, it's almost warm.
 
Icecubes are fine if you have time to monitor it and when it's all melted to keep adding more. I don't have the luxury of watching over my Chams all day long.

I offer a dripper for the majority of my away time and i have a misting system.(best investment i have ever made and you will agree too when you start keeping more Chams) Especially in the summer time.

I would consider icecubes a treat and not a form of hydration.

I understand that you will be hatching some Chams in a few months. Will you be using the icecube and handmisting to hydrate them also?
 
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