Weak female veiled

[Stalker]

If there's not a vet who's good with reptiles, maybe you can find one with a lot of bird experience? They aren't that far off the evolutionary line from birds and that might be an easier fit.

well maybe i'm a bit over reacting i know a vet who can do blood work and have experence with reptiles but when it comes to my cham ... im freaking a bit out ... and thank you i will look for someone good with birds and ask him for oppinon

 

[kinyonga]

Gout can be tested for but usually shows up in an x-ray too.

If its an infection the area will need to be cleaned out and the exudate can be tested (culture and sensitivity test) to determine what the bacteria is that is involved and what antibiotic to give the chameleon.

An x-ray could also let you know if she has eggs (show as ovals) or follicles (show as round shapes) inside her.

I hope that the vet knows enough to get your chameleon back to good health.

 

[Stalker]

thank you. I hope that too

 

[Stalker]

i found a clinic and got her there ... the doc made a x-ray. It's MBD ... she got 2 injections in her rear legs and the doc gave me vitamins ... CaCo3 and AD3E
well i think there are 2 reasons for her current condition ... the one is the repti glo 5.0 tube and the second one maybe i've been giving less vitamins although the scheme is right

so can someone tell me how much do i have to give with each feeding ? i am using zoomed repti calcium w/ and w/o D3 and reptivite

 

[Rune]

i found a clinic and got her there ... the doc made a x-ray. It's MBD ... she got 2 injections in her rear legs and the doc gave me vitamins ... CaCo3 and AD3E
well i think there are 2 reasons for her current condition ... the one is the repti glo 5.0 tube and the second one maybe i've been giving less vitamins although the scheme is right

so can someone tell me how much do i have to give with each feeding ? i am using zoomed repti calcium w/ and w/o D3 and reptivite

Just put a bit in a cup, and shake. You dont want white crickets, just semi white.(Lightly dusted) You want to give calcium everyday and d3 twice a month. Also, if you can, find some multivitamin and give it to her twice a month. it helps.

 

[Stalker]

Thank you for the information guys you proved to me again that this is the best forum for chameleons
I hope she gets back to good heath fast i'll post here her condition

 

[kinyonga]

First you need to get your chameleon back on track and then you need to maintain her nutrient balance.

Also...don't know if it applies to vitamins and minerals, but the chameleon's renal system is unusual and if you give injections they should be in the front half of the body or arms as a rule to get the best use out of what you are injecting.

The quickest way to correct the MBD is to give the chameleon injections of calcium over a few days/weeks until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give it an injection of calcitonin which rapidly draws the calcium back into the chameleon.

Did the vet tell you to continue to give it some extra calcium for a while still?

Be careful with the Reptivite...it has prEformed vitamin A in it...so it should only be used once a month IMHO. You can use one like Herptivite which has a prOformed source of vitamin A (beta carotene) which won't build up in the system once or twice a month too.

Here's some information that should help you. I can't remember if I posted it already or not...sorry if this is a repeat...
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it. At that size you only need to feed it every two or three days. Feed it enough that it doesn't get fat (and, of course, doesn't get thin either).

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium). Not sure how to tell you to dust WC insects if that is what you will be doing.

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[Stalker]

Well she i don't know why she decided to put the 2 injections in the rear legs ... but she did that. The vet gave me CaCo3 and AD3E ... believe the first one is calcium and the second one is vitamin D3. The calcium is powder while the vitamin D3 is in syringe. She told me to use as much calcium as 1 rice grain daily ... the amount she gave me is for maybe 3-4 months. Also she told me to use 1 drop of the vitamin D3 on the food im about to give to the animal every day for the first 5 days and after that to cut it to 2 times a week until the cham gets back to normal health.

The irony here is that i did a lot of reasearch and have tons of data about chameleons and still somehow i managed to do the things wrong ... although i have chameleon for year and 2 months and i still haven't stop reading about them.

Thank you for the info it's great

 

[ChrisH]

I don't know what the weather is like there but you said you don't need a heat source in the summer so maybe you could take her out in the sun once in a while too? But you would have to get a screened cage so she could benefit from the sun.

 

[Stalker]

I have a Huge hybiscus for that she loves to hang on it when it is sunny ...

 

[kinyonga]

Be careful not to overdo the D3 supplements if she is going to be outside quite a bit.

CaCo3 is calcium carbonate and AD3E I think is vitamins A and D3 and E.

 

[ataraxia]

sounds like your on the right course to getting your cham in better health standings.

kinyonga has given great advice.

sun from a window will only be a good heat source with no uvb factors. i would suspect that the reason for the mbd would be caused from the lack of proper uvb via the old bulb, since you were dusting calcium on a reg basis..

while she is recovering i would place her in the sun (not through a window) if temps are within range. her body will be able to process d3 much more efficiently through the skin than a supplement.

she looks a tad skinny to me also. how many feeders are you feeding her and frequency?

recommended changes:

Temps: low 80's* for female / ambient temps 72* measure by digital guages.

Feeders: gutload (24 hours before feeding) with fresh veggies and fruits and once a week with sticky tongues gutload. Crickets, mealworms, superworms, silkworms, hornworms, dubai roaches, reptiworms, BB flies.

wish you guys the best of luck on the recovery.

 

[Stalker]

I was giving her 8-12 crickets every other day (depends on the size of the feeder) or equivalent in other feeder and i leave them there until she finishes eating em ... sometimes she ate im in a day sometimes in 2. I'm not letting the feeders to roam in the enclosure ... cup feeding, it's easyer to monitor if she eats or not also i have grass on the bottom of the enclosure.

3-4 days before she became weak she stopped eating but i thought that was a hunger strike because she prefer to eat zophobas morio but i want her main diet to be crickets ... obviously i was wrong

Now she is eating 2-3 crickets and 3 gutted zophobas worms daily but i think i should cut a bit back with the food because she is not that active and about the water how much should i give her ?

I think she is better today ... she even tried to bite me a few time while i was feeding her

 

[Stalker]

hmm now i think i have a new problem ... before she went to a vet she was moving ok even her rear legs but what im seeing is from 3 days she is not moving well her rear part of the body ... she can move the tail and grab with her back legs but today i saw her dragging her rear legs. Also i noticed that she has something like a lump on her back... you can see it near the top of the picture and her tail is a bit darker than her body :X to take the x-ray the vet used tape so she doesn't move while they take the x-ray ... i saw that later when she showed me the x-ray ... my question is can this be effect of the MBD and will it go away or can it be the vets fault ?
have someone seen something like that ?

Does anyone knows what i should do in this case ?

 

[CammieBaby]

I the changing of light works.. You can also give them butterflys it helps to get them active. They'll start perking up.. You can also double the light they are getting by putting them on a live plant/tree near the window. Or even place them outside where you can keep trrack of them..

 

[kinyonga]

Sounds like she my have injured her back. What are you doing to correct the MBD?

 

[Stalker]

Sounds like she my have injured her back. What are you doing to correct the MBD?

well she haven't injured it while i was watching her thats for sure ... and the last few weeks i was at home mainly ... the only time i wasn't watching is when she was with the vet ... she just told me to wait and went somewhere with the cham ... first to take x-ray and after that she did the same thing so she can go and check what dosage to use and to inject the cham with what i belive is calcium and vit D3.

well what i did is first to change the tube ... i had luck so it's changed from 2 days ... from monday i've been using as the vet told me 1 drop of vit AD3E every day for the first 5 days (today is the third day) and after that the vet told me to use it 2 times a week.
Also i am giving her CaCO3 as much as a rice grain once every other day.

from what i'm seeing i can tell that her grip is stronger and her "hand" is a bit less swollen.

 

[DavidBuchan]

hmm now i think i have a new problem ... before she went to a vet she was moving ok even her rear legs but what im seeing is from 3 days she is not moving well her rear part of the body ... she can move the tail and grab with her back legs but today i saw her dragging her rear legs. Also i noticed that she has something like a lump on her back... you can see it near the top of the picture and her tail is a bit darker than her body :X to take the x-ray the vet used tape so she doesn't move while they take the x-ray ... i saw that later when she showed me the x-ray ... my question is can this be effect of the MBD and will it go away or can it be the vets fault ?
have someone seen something like that ?

Does anyone knows what i should do in this case ?

I think this is probably due to the mbd. They can go down quickly when it first starts showing......

well she haven't injured it while i was watching her thats for sure ... and the last few weeks i was at home mainly ... the only time i wasn't watching is when she was with the vet ... she just told me to wait and went somewhere with the cham ... first to take x-ray and after that she did the same thing so she can go and check what dosage to use and to inject the cham with what i belive is calcium and vit D3.

well what i did is first to change the tube ... i had luck so it's changed from 2 days ... from monday i've been using as the vet told me 1 drop of vit AD3E every day for the first 5 days (today is the third day) and after that the vet told me to use it 2 times a week.
Also i am giving her CaCO3 as much as a rice grain once every other day.

from what i'm seeing i can tell that her grip is stronger and her "hand" is a bit less swollen.

Hope you caught it in time - I'm no expert but it seems that the best you can do is follow the vets advice and she'll have the best chance - good luck

 

[Stalker]

thank you ... i hope that she gets back on her feet soon :X

 

[Stalker]

it looked like she was getting better ... her grip got a lot stronger than it was ... also her tail returned to a normal color ... but i found her dead. The area around her ribs had dark stripes alongside the ribs ... 5 dark stripes long 1 cm this was only on the right side of her body and she was not breathing