Weak or dying or something?

[Julirs]

Yeah, it's zoo med, repticalcium.

The uv bulb is in a plastic uv shell thing, facing down into the cage?


Having a tough time holding it's head up while walking, using mainly front legs rear legs seem to be working but it's not using them (so maybe they aren't?), it wants to climb up but is struggling climbing.

Is there a plastic lens between the bulb and the cage?

 

[Shopsmart]

ok, you have been a member since august.
Chameleons can overdose on D3.
not to keep beating you."so to speak"
your cage looked really bare.
you have carpet and paper towels at the bottom of the cage.
That helps bacteria grow.

Yeah I was changing the paper towel every few days, and cleaning the stuff off the carpet, I may have used too much calcium but recently I toned down the amount I used would these be similar symptoms to too much calcium though?

 

[Shopsmart]

Is there a plastic lens between the bulb and the cage?

No the light is free hanging in the hood.

 

[Justin Carl]

well, if he isnt using his back legs at all i would worry.
could be from a lack of vitamins as well.
how recent is it?
today, one week?

 

[Shopsmart]

well, if he isnt using his back legs at all i would worry.
could be from a lack of vitamins as well.
how recent is it?
today, one week?

Just today I've noticed him acting like this, within the past 4 hours, I'm pretty sure he slept ok last night, and I sprayed him this morning before I left and he seemed content/usual.

However, it has seemed like his diet diminished in the past 3 days, I've dumped in large crickets but he definatly seemed to slow down, from about monday-tues.

Couple more hopefully better quality pictures coming up, I took him out of his cage, and put him in the open.

 

[Shopsmart]

He looks more yellow than he actually is the very bright spots, double vertical stripes are the actually yellow parts.

Grip still seems tight too, not the tightest i've felt but he was able to hang from my hand upside down, and the rear feet were tight.

 

[Justin Carl]

well it is common for veiled chameleons to venture down to the bottom of the cage.
i would give it a day or two.
when he wakes up tomorrow try to get him to use his back legs.
I am not the most intelligent/qualified person when it comes to disease.
Maybe some of the other members that have seen this before might have a better answer.

 

[Julirs]

Those legs look like a bad case of MBD to me. He needs to see a Vet ASAP. You don't have much time. Either your lighting is bad or your supplementation is bad or both.

 

[Justin Carl]

the second and third picture look to me like he has metabolic bone disease.
the joints dont look good at all.
he needs a vet.

 

[Shopsmart]

well it is common for veiled chameleons to venture down to the bottom of the cage.
i would give it a day or two.
when he wakes up tomorrow try to get him to use his back legs.
I am not the most intelligent/qualified person when it comes to disease.
Maybe some of the other members that have seen this before might have a better answer.

Yeah, I definatly appreciate the help, thanks. I'll see how he is tomorrow, hopefully still alive, knowing his behavior he would venture to the bottom of the cage when he was hungry because he got accustomed to how they moved, he also crawls the sides of the cages because he knows where they hide, but it seemed like he was hungry but being kind of picky, I just tried putting some mealworms in front of him but he didn't want to eat probably because I was putting them in his sight, and he was afraid i was trying to touch him, he still hisses when I move near him, and snaps at my hand.


Well, I may be f**ked, is it possible he makes it to monday, or what, is there anything I can give him to help him in the meantime?

He didn't seem to degrade into this condition, does it really happen in the course of a day?

 

[DarkRapture]

something sounds very amiss here... i would plan a trip to the vet asap! the more info you can give us, the better we can try to help as well.

you said something about waxworms... were they for treats here and there or was that the main food? the large crickets still might be a little too big for him, does he have difficulty pooping? i noticed that mine was having quite a time passing feces when i started feeding full size as opposed to med/big. it might be possible if he hasnt pooped that there might be some kind of impaction?

 

[Justin Carl]

yea it can happen very fast and will rapidly become worse.
you dont have an emergency vet in town?
we had a similar case this week. they got him to the vet that night.
he is doing much better now.
they are giving him liquid calcium shots.

 

[Shopsmart]

something sounds very amiss here... i would plan a trip to the vet asap! the more info you can give us, the better we can try to help as well.

you said something about waxworms... were they for treats here and there or was that the main food? the large crickets still might be a little too big for him, does he have difficulty pooping? i noticed that mine was having quite a time passing feces when i started feeding full size as opposed to med/big. it might be possible if he hasnt pooped that there might be some kind of impaction?

No, I fed him waxworms every once in a while, I don't know an exact number, I usually left them in a bowl monitoring if they were living or not, I would put those and mealworms in the bowl on and off, and then usually dropped in crickets every other day. He seemed to be ok with large crickets, but you might be right, can they not be fully digested sometimes if they are too large or something? I haven't seen him throw anything up or have problems swallowing the size, and he doesn't seem to have a hard time pooping. His poops look average color like they've always been, with a white part.

 

[Shopsmart]

yea it can happen very fast and will rapidly become worse.
you dont have an emergency vet in town?
we had a similar case this week. they got him to the vet that night.
he is doing much better now.
they are giving him liquid calcium shots.

Well, I definatly don't want him to die but to call in the vet for an emergency tomorrow, I can't really afford.

 

[DarkRapture]

it sounds like there could be a problem with MBD then, his arms and legs looked a little curvy in the pictures.
you should try to do as much research as possible... i have a simple page for you to try as well:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~chameleon/feature/index.html

 

[DarkRapture]

also this one is amazing!! http://www.martinsreptiles.co.uk/ukchams/calciummbdd3.htm#calciumphos
do you think its a male or female? if it's actually a female, it might need a sandbox to lay eggs... but it sounds to me like you are describing a male if he has tarsal spurs...

 

[kinyonga]

You said one of the lights it came from might be a fluorescent UVB light...what's the other light?

You said..."I gut loaded the crickets with 2 types of cricket food (store bought) before throwing them (around a day later)"...what so these foods have in the way of calcium, phosphorous, D3 and vitamin A...and is the vitamin A preformed?

You said..."I usually dusted like 2 feedings a week about"...and..."I was using calcium every feeding up until about a couple weeks ago"...and...you said you were giving him "zoo med, repticalcium" with D3...most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. so IMHO its important to dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder. Feeding your insects a nutritious diet and gutloading them with a proper gutload is important too.

Exposure to UVB allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its diet. If the chameleon only gets UVB from fluorescent lights (and no direct sunlight) then its usually necessary to dust with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder a couple of times a month lightly. Excess D3 from supplements can build up in the system...so donèt overdo it.

Vitamin powder given twice a month is "insurance" that they get their vitamins. A beta carotene source of vitamin A in this powder will not builod up in the system...but if it contains a preformed source of vitamin A it can build up. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

Appropriate basking temperature allows for proper digestion...so it plays a part in nutrient absorption too.

Phos., calcium, D3 and vitamin A are the four main players in bone health and need to be in balance. You need to look at the supplements, what the insects eat and what the chameleon eats when trying to balance these.
These also play other parts in the system...so when a chameleon has MBD it can have other issues too.

You said..."is there anything I can give him to help him in the meantime?"...you can give him some liquid calcium gluconate. Its thick and syrupy so they cannot swallow it easily so be careful that its not aspirated.

The vet will likely do some tests to determine the calcium levels and then may give your chameleon injections of calcium. When the blood levels are high enough, he could give it a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the blood quickly.

Good luck with him!

 

[Shopsmart]

You said one of the lights it came from might be a fluorescent UVB light...what's the other light?

I only have 2 lights the uv 5.0 light and the heat lamp.

You said..."I gut loaded the crickets with 2 types of cricket food (store bought) before throwing them (around a day later)"...what so these foods have in the way of calcium, phosphorous, D3 and vitamin A...and is the vitamin A preformed?

I used zilla, gut load cricket and insect food for a while then my mom also just recently got me flukers high calcium cricket feed (but due to the lack of eating and i just got it recent, it might not have been fed soon enough), it's like a rat pellet smelling food.

Awesome thanks a lot for the help.

And thanks for the links rapture they helped a lot as well.

I just gotta baby him until monday, unless the vet can guide me over the phone tomorrow for a cushion to get me through the day.

 

[DarkRapture]

Awesome thanks a lot for the help.

And thanks for the links rapture they helped a lot as well.

I just gotta baby him until monday, unless the vet can guide me over the phone tomorrow for a cushion to get me through the day.

no problem! i have been doing hours of research each week so that i can learn everything i can about each thing associated with my Marley. i even went on this whole tangent about how UV light is measured and the specific wavelength that veiled chameleons require. (296 nm actually ) i agree with everyone that it is a lot of work to research and care for a cham. i'm sorry to hear about the bad news, i hope that i can prevent bad things from happening to my little guy.

i don't remember if i linked you to this site but it is the most complete that i have found so far: http://www.ukchameleons.co.uk/
it rocks! i have learned a lot from it

 

[buba636]

i have a male veiled as well he has a basking area of atleast 95 deg and the farthest point away from the heat and UVB and full spectrum is 75 i have a 38 gal mesh cage. Night temp never goes lower then 65 deg. water droper and chrickets/meal worms for feed. Flukes gutload and orange slices for crickets powder every other day. His legs and grip seem ok he changes colors fine. but refuses to use his hind legs on vines or greens only on flat surfaces. he constantly is moving on the bottom of the cage and climbs the side but not far. I've been giving him 1cc of flukes aid twice a day, because i've noticed he is not eating the crickets any more. i have not noticed any droppings thow. he does drink water, but i have not seen him eat a cricket in 2 days now.i put him in the large clup of vines i have in his cage but he "curls" his back legs foward insted of under him. the front legs grip normal but he ends up on the bottom i've seen him fall once but he got up and walked right away .he still is very active even thow on the bottom of the cage. someone please help.