Werner babies update -- not good

[wendyeeeo]

So sorry to hear about your babies. I'd be a mess. I've only recently seen much about the Werner chams online, and they are awesome looking. How do you like having one? Are they much different to take care of than a veiled or Jackson's?

 

[nicholas]

first off let me say that i have no direct experience with any montanes other than xanths. i know everyone is going to whip all of the seperate genus issue on me, but to me its just another jacksons. i agree with the no supplementing and i also agree with the natural sun and nightdrop issues but imo, if the neonates are not doing that well, then temps below 60*seem low to me, i am also not sure i agree with humidity above 80% and i do think after 1 month that screen is better. this is just a thought, but since the neonates are too young to test, if the mom is strong enough, and cash is not an issue, you might consider having a blood panel done on the mom. imo knowing her present blood chemistry might give some clue as to what is going on with the neonates. but it could take too long for the results and i am not saying that what is going on with her blood chemistry is neccesarily what is happening with the neonates, wouldnt hurt to do fecal smears on the neonates if you have the ability to do that. kind of a long shot i know, but its all i got. personally i would keep all of the healthy ones together as long as they are not stressing each other out. since werners are not as common in captivity, it seems like more of a loss. imo, it would be hugely rewarding if you were able to keep even a couple alive through the critical stage jmo

I am not at all stating that the things I said are how it "Should be" I am simply stating how it has worked for multiple clutches for me. As for the temps below 60's, I think it's what makes them stronger in the long run and also controls the metabolism imo. And also the humidity above 80% I will admit I thought it would cause issues with the respiratory system, however I did it as a test and it seemed to make them much more responsive and less weak, I also never had any issues with it. And I also do agree that even keeping a few alive through the process would be hugely rewarding as they are a very difficult and time consuming neonate to raise.

 

[laurie]

Lisa how are the babies doing? How many do you have? I keep hoping you get to keep some of them. Best of luck.

 

[lisa h]

I've so dreaded posting, but might as well. I am down to one. He's always been the "tough guy", so I'm not surprised he's the last one. He looks better than any of the others, although that's probably not saying much. The others just seemed to get weak and go to the bottom and die. Some I'd put back up on a branch to see if that would make a difference, but that only gave them an extra day or so. Right now I'm feeding fruit flies and pinheads, although I don't see him hunting or eating (although he must be). Daytime he is kept upstairs where the pygmies are (a cooler area of the house), and I move him to the basement at night for the temp drop. Humidity is high. I put him outside on sunny days, although we have been getting pretty chilly, so I don't do that everyday. By getting a gravid female I was really hoping to "give back" and not just keep the more rare species as pets. In that I have failed, and I'm feeling a lot of guilt and questionning myself on many levels.

So, that's where I'm at now. Thank you for asking, and I thank everyone for their suggestions and support, and also for no one calling me an idiot for even trying this (even if you thought it). Hopefully there will be positive updates as my little guy grows.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Unfortunately with this hobby we have to fail in order to learn from our mistakes. Just concentrate on that last one and dont beat yourself up. Personally I hope you have another litttle female there. It would be much easier to bring a wc male in too bred with them in the future. Then you'd have two different lines.

 

[lisa h]

Lines?!?! LOL You're waaay ahead there bud. I just need this little guy/gal to live, then we'll talk lines
Thanks for being so positive -- it really does help.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

What can say? I think positively.

 

[lisa h]

... and that's a good thing!

 

[laurie]

Lisa you are doing a tough thing and you have one alive!!!! That really is a success. I am now tackling a bit more difficult chameleons than in the past and I have had a couple of setbacks. I lost the w/c female I loved the most of all my chams. It really hurts but we have to help each other get up and do it again. We are on your side and here for you so hang in there.

 

[lisa h]

Thanks Laurie. I had the little one outside this afternoon, as the temperature was decent. It's so hard to see them slip away and not be able to do anything about it. At least mom is looking/doing ok. She's decided she's on a "crickets only" diet, but I'm giving her some leaway since there's not much left of her after the births. Once she gains some weight she's going to go back to variety. What a princess! LOL

 

[jmart]

Sorry Lisa, haven't been on in a while and just saw the post. Hope you keep the little one alive.
I am also down to 2. I have tried many things. they were born in July when it was very hot. there was not much temp drop. They dropped one by one gradually and then in Sept/Oct it got colder and they seemed not to do as well. I have moved them to the warmer reptile room in a bin with uv light.
They ate much more and were perkier. this is also my first time and its not easy.
One lady raised sternfeldi in screen cage and they all lived. I will try this when my jackson gives birth.
Being in Canada is harder to have chams as we have a small window for keeping them outside.
Jo

 

[lisa h]

Well, this will be the last update, because this afternoon my last little one died. Three days ago I would have bet that he would make it, but already yesterday he started going down hill. By this morning I knew he had less than 24 hours. I just don't get it. They never really grew, I never saw them hunt (well I did see one, one time), and they just seemed to fade away. So sad, and all I hope is that they didn't suffer.

Thanks for all the good wishes and advice.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry to hear that they have all passed on. Its so hard to watch this happen and not be able to stop it.

 

[jessica]

I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you. Don't beat yourself up, you did everything you could.

 

[xanthoman]

addressing post partum ca/p levels

It's so hard to see them slip away and not be able to do anything about it. At least mom is looking/doing ok. She's decided she's on a "crickets only" diet, but I'm giving her some leaway since there's not much left of her after the births. Once she gains some weight she's going to go back to variety.

that is too bad. i know what a helpless feeling its is, but whats done is done, and i would try to encourage mom to accept variety as soon as possible, feeding all crickets is likely to get her ca/p (calcium/phosphorus) levels out of balance. personally i would try to get her to eat a butterworm or two a week for weight gain and try to get her to eat some (partially cut open) bsfl for added calcium benefit without adding extra dry calcium. if she wont go for that, (since its reasonable to assume she is calcium poor right now), you might want to consider injecting a few of her feeders with a small amount of liquid calcium glubionate (raises calcium), or mylanta, [raises calcium + lowers phosphorus (nix on the mylanta if she has any suspected kidney problems or excessively runny stool, but it will help lower phosphorus levels)] jmo